Farewell Senator – The Tea Parties are Working – Guest Post

April 28, 2009 by admncc

Here at The Constant Complainer, in addition to my own posts, readers can submit Guest Posts on topics they would like to complain about.  Neo Con Don submitted the below-Guest Post.  As most of you know, Don’s complaint is usually something political.  But this is an easy read and everyone has heard of Arlen Specter.  He’s making the news yet again today.  So without further adieu, here’s Don…

I left the Republican Party the day their Presidential Nominee voted for Tarp.  As many of you may recall I opined brilliantly in my June 12, 2008 column (The Liberals and the Alcoholics) that a victory for Obama would not necessary be as bad as many conservatives might think.  It was pretty clear that the most conservative candidate that remained after the Republicans nominated McCain was Hillary Clinton.  Right now John McCain faces a serious primary battle for his Senate Seat.

Today, Arlen Specter of Pennsylvania has decided to leave the Republican Party and caucus with the Democratic Party.  This is excellent news for conservative Republicans.  Specter was looking to be in trouble in the republican primary, so he decided to follow the money…and the money is in the Democratic Party.

More will go, and they need to go.  Specter voted with the liberals so often that he could never be counted on to advance the conservative agenda.  I would not be surprised if I saw Olympia Snow, and John McCain follow.

The conservative movement will either take back the Republican Party, or will build a new party.  Specter’s exodus may signify that a rebuild of the party is more likely.

In any case, April 28, 2009 will go down in conservative history as the day a senior member of the senate in the Republican Party realized that conservatives will not allow their party to advance the cruelties of liberalism.  During the Tea Parties on April 15th, Specter was attacked for his cruel liberal policies and he has responded in the only way he knew how.  Senator Specter, if you want the gov’t to seize control of the auto industry, you can vote that way. If you want the federal gov’t to limit the choice of our medial care and significantly raise costs, you can vote that way too.  If you want to tax the American people up the yin yang for carbon emissions over some junk science sponsored by the socialists and communists in the United Nations, you can vote that way too.  But you won’t do it in the name of American Conservatism.  Who’s next?

All Posts / General Moaning / Group Sharing / Guest Posts / Politics Arlen Specter / Democrat / Democratic Party / Political Debate / Politics / Republican / Republican Party /


  1. Zig says:

    NCD, U are an idiot! Now that we have Specter on our side, say hello socialized medicine! And once we get that other hero from Minnesota, we’ll be in the driver’s seat for a generation… Conservatism doesn’t work. It allows people to run amuck of the rules and cheat and steal their way to prosperity! Limited Government allows those with the “know how” to cheat the system… Limited Government allows those of wealth and privledge to steal from the disenfranchised among us. Limited Government is the latest mantra of the conservative movement, because they are no longer in the business of Government! The real members of the Conservative party are back to their old ways of robbing, cheating and stealing the American public on their way to prosperity, in the banking system!

    Anyway, you say, “The conservative movement will either take back the Republican Party, or will build a new party.” I cannot foresee that happening for a very long time. Did you read the article in the PD, Plain Dealer, this morning? It said that over 50% of the people in this country favor Socialism… No, not the socialism of which you speak. The Socialism of which they speak is the new Democratic social agenda of president Barack Obama. His policies are the new reality and many people are getting on board the Socialist train.

    The Generation right below us has no hatred for socialist policies and sees value in SHARED PROSPERITY…which, after all, is one of the beliefs of Socialism! The Conservative movement is on it’s last legs. As it will have few hate mongers left to carry on it’s mission, it will die a slow and drawn out death!

    Specter is a true American Hero!

  2. Daniel Vorhies says:

    At what time in history without some sort of violent revolution have you seen government reduce size? Actually shrink? Once government establishes itself, it doesn’t ever see a way to demote or reduce. So, 140 years ago when the federal government established itself as the 800 lbs gorilla here in the USofA by smacking down the southern states and letting everyone know that the FEDS are the ones that make the rules, it has been a slow march toward this behemoth that we call the Federal Government. We have no choice but to reduce the spending of government (which is of course 55-60% military) which based upon your comments so far you are in no way supportive of reducing. I find your constant framing the democrats/socialist agenda as a polar opposite to your red blooded american/republican a bit deceiving. You are no republican. You may be an extreme conservative, but the things you talk about have NOTHING to do with republican values. You do things like shop at Walmart who instantly repatriates your hard earned money out of your town and puts it into shareholders hands. You talk about big government when the “republicans” who have been in control since Reagan (Clinton was a closet republican) have put american interest on the back burner to personal interest and put this nation so far in debt that you either have two options, raise taxes madly or close down the government. You claim yourself to be an american patriot, but all you care about is yourself and your civil liberties, but where were you when the patriot act needed to be stopped? Are you really a Republican? I think it seems like you really don’t want to think and you believe a political position is what you heard on Rush Limbaugh this morning. You throw out words like socialism and communism like they’re bad words. They’re political ideas that are simply different forms of living. You were in a fraternity in college… that is the ULITMATE in socialism. I don’t want to hurt your street cred, but you were in one of the most SOCIALIST types of organizations in America. But there are many, many positives about your socialist organization too. My point is, that concerted and thoughtful examination of the issues is what is required and using labels like King Barry the Great and liberals like they were F-bombs don’t get you anywhere other than turning thinking people off. We have a non-inclusive 2 party system that only works and protects the rich.

    If you’re preaching to the shee-eople who don’t really want to think and just want to run out and complain about America’s deteriorating moral values, but also aren’t willing to stop shopping at Walmart who gets 70-80% of thier merchandise from communist china then you’re reaching your audience. I look forward to providing a thinking alternative to your Rush one liners. I look forward to it my friend!

  3. NeoConDon says:

    Thanks for getting involved in the discussion Dan. I’m not a Repbulican, I’m a conservative. There’s a big difference. It’s impossible to tell the difference between the elected democrats and republicans anymore. They seem to have the exact same destination in mind, just a different time frame of getting there. Socialism and communism are bad because their application require immoral behavior like stealing from and murdering your own citizens. Those behaviors are not supported in the constitution. I shop at Wal-mart because I can save a great deal of money for my family while at the same time support an American company. This downward spiral started with Woodrow Wilson and then FDR, two devestaing presidents (if you believe socialism is bad). But, that’s not the topic of the day. I was not aware that you were a Rush Limbaugh listener…how often do you listen?

  4. Hal says:

    Politcal talk. Blah, blah, blah. Don, you are a good writer and I always read your posts. But I just don’t know how to debate stuff like this. LOL. I guess I’m not strong enough. But I will say this. Specter leaving is being seen as a problem for the Republicans, but it’s not. He could never be counted on as a conservative anyway.

  5. Daniel Vorhies says:

    Yea, I’ve been reading your posts on FB for a while and needed to get it off my chest. The Specter thing is just him protecting his butt and is another elected official keeping his job. TERM LIMITS FOR ALL OFFICIALS. Supreme Court too….

    As for your other points, Socialism isn’t immoral. Communism isn’t immoral. The applications as have been evidenced in society so far may have been (Russia, Venzuela, Cuba, China) but that doesn’t mean the precepts aren’t valid. There are many socialist styled democracies (including our own) that have hybrid-ized themselves to accommodate the needs of the many. Canadians aren’t immoral killers, but their democracy is pretty socialist. Just like Christianity, the idea is pretty good, but the application and number of dead in the name of God doesn’t reflect well on the faith as a whole. As for Rush, keep your friends close and your enemies closer. The guy is one of the biggest nutjobs on the planet and approaches evil with the way he incites non-thinking.

    I’m an extreme fiscal conservative and extreme social liberal/civil libertarian. Government should never get involved in a populace’s personal lives in any way. Gay marriage I’m for. Gun control I’m against. Abortion is for a woman to decide. Terry Schiavo was a republican albatross. Seat belts are a personal choice that I feel would clear out the gene pool by getting rid of the people who are too stupid to understand that they’re there for their safety. We as a nation should never spend money that we don’t have in hand. Tax spending and not income. These are ideals that I believe in.

    Have you read Atlas Shrugged? There are some ideals in there that I’m very much supportive of that I think we may find some common ground on… And I wonder if it won’t take that sort of complete revolution for the world to begin to come around.

    As for Walmart, I’ll tell you a quick story. We went on a cruise to Alaska 2 years ago. Two ports were VERY telling in terms of economic impact of how the different methods of living affected the local populace. Ketchikan had allowed anyone and everyone to own shops in town and Sitka had a law that you had to live in Sitka to own a business. They were like night and day in terms of cleanliness, affluence and general quality of life. Sitka with the no outside ownership laws was VERY well off. Most people owned their homes even. The reason behind the affluence was when you went down to Bob’s House of electronics and bought your big screen, Bob could then go buy a new car from Jim and Jim’s Chevy. Jim could then sponsor the local ball team and school, etc. The money was spent within the community many times before going in a bank or out of the local economy. While in Ketchikan, you went to Walmart and spent your money the profit was given to some family in Arkansas. Now I’m not advocating using government to control such things, but what I am advocating is an informed consumer that understands spending locally is invariably a better option.

  6. NeoConDon says:

    I stopped with “socialism and communism isn’t immoral.” Yes they are.

  7. NeoConDon says:

    …and I’m not saying that your beliefs are absurd, because they are well thought out and logical depending on points of view, but there’s no way to get beyond the immorality of socialism and communism. Take Zig for example. He just wants “free health care” not realizing that it will be more expensive and less available to his family. But he’s a gov’t “worker”, so he’s not too smart…

  8. Daniel Vorhies says:

    You say they are immoral but you don’t provide any support other than it being your opinion… I’m pretty sure one of the 10 commandments isn’t “Thou shalt not be a pinko commie!” How can you validate that statement?

  9. Zig says:

    NCD, I am a Government worker. I do have a pension, a 401k, an IRA and a life time of heathcare… Who is not too smart now, idiot? I don’t need any free healthcare, I have a JOB, unlike your poorass! Remind me again who isn’t too smart…

    Tell me why socialism and communism are immoral? You have just been listeing to Regan’s old speeches… As Daniel pointed out, and you don’t seem to understand, “Just like Christianity, the idea is pretty good…” and “Socialism isn’t immoral. Communism isn’t immoral. The applications as have been evidenced in society so far may have been (Russia, Venzuela, Cuba, China) but that doesn’t mean the precepts aren’t valid.” The human condition, in many instances, is what limits the fair and equitable delivery of Socialist values! Humanbeings care more about looking out for themselves and their own well being than the shared well being of all their neighbors…

    NCD, you, of all people, should see the value in shared prosperity, a.k.a. SOCIALISM, because the only way you will ever prosper is with another’s help!

    Learn punctuation, idiot!

  10. Zig says:

    NCD, you say “Take Zig for example. He just wants “free health care” not realizing that it will be more expensive and less available to his family.”

    If you only knew about what you were talking… What you are not saying speaks volumes… I have a job, 1 child, health insurance for my wife and myself for life, a wife who earns a good living, a nice house in a good neighborhood and, therefore, I am RICH. You don’t have a job, your house is overflowing with mouths to feed, your wife teaches school, your health insurance (and your future) is tied to your wife keeping you around, you live in Cleveland Heights and, therefore, are Poor White Trash!

  11. NeoConDon says:

    Zig, you’re a moron. I’d nominate you for the Moron of the Week Award, but the commies at the Constant Complainer have said you cannot be nominated more than 2 weeks in a row. But I feel bad for your son knowing that you don’t believe in his ability be sucessful. You’re clearly going to be a great father.


    If I have to explain why communism is immoral, then I have nothing more to say in this discussion. My Great Grandfather used to say “The only good commie is a dead commie, and the best dead commie is the one I got!”

    On socialism, you’re right that it exists today in the U.S., and it has since Wilson and FDR (both socialists, and destructive presidents.) Today, it’s difficult to differentiate between the two parties. I do expect an Atlas Shrugged situation to occur, and I think it already has begun.

    I look at political structure from a moral standpoint, and an economic standpoint. I follow Milton Friedman’s beliefs. Walter E. Williams, and economist at George Mason can say it better than I can. But, if I could put you in a room with my Great grandfather and grandmother, they could quickly explain to you how immoral socialism, communism are. When you finally realize that in order for either to work, a gov’t needs to murder its citizens and place the rest in poverty, you’d disagree with it too…unless you’re a moron like Zig who doesn’t realize that his health care costs will get higher and his treatment will become less available and lower quality. His standard of living is going to decline, and he will lose most of the choices he now takes for granted.

    Here’s a breakdown of Williams on the evils of socialism.


    Ronald Reagan once said…
    “How do you tell a communist? Well, it’s someone who reads Marx and Lenin. And how do you tell an anti-Communist? It’s someone who understands Marx and Lenin.”

  12. Tristan says:

    Zig, what’s cruel and immoral is that promises were made to you that cannot possibly be sustained. All of your lifelong benefits are nothing more than promises and they simply cannot be there for you in the long run. You might as well work for GM.

    The economy is contracting. Jobs are vanishing and tax receipts are plummeting. It is only a matter of time until entitlement programs fail officially and government itself is forced to either shrink to proper levels or be overthrown. That is change you can believe in.

    I can’t say whether socialism or communism is inherently immoral in some dream world, but in this world I believe that individual freedom, as the founders of our nation intended, is not surpassed by any ideology of clever social systems. Any system where far reaching power is granted to a central authority is destined to fail and any system that discards equality to leech prosperity from one group to another is not a moral system.

  13. NeoConDon says:

    …and I’d like to be clear on this.

    Let’s have the debate. Obama has laid the ground work to run through socialist medicine without allowing for the people to be educated and the politicians to whom the people loan their power to engage in a debate. I’m all for a thought out process, but it can’t be fascist in nature the way the libs are prone to be.

    I think everyone in the U.S. would love to go back in time and tell FDR that he is way off on social security. Let’s not make the same failures FDR made under a different social plan. And most important, let’s be certain to make sure there is still a private system for those who do not want the gov’t making their healthcare decisions on their behalf. The last thing I want is Canada’s pathetic, expensive, and inferior health care system run by incompetent socialists who get to decide who lives and who dies. That would be immoral.

  14. Hmm. Well I think this is one of those things that we can argue about till we are blue in the face and at the end of the day we all have our own opinions. I am not for communism nor socialism.

  15. Oh, I meant to say that I don’t think that communism or socialism is “immoral” I just don’t see it working out.

  16. NeoConDon says:

    I often wonder if Christina is repeating the same lies told to us in our schools and universities about socialism and communism not being immoral. Are we then saying that Hitler’s Germany wasn’t immoral? What about Stalin’s Russia and Soviet Union? The Berlin Wall, was that moral? Are we to believe that Castro’s Cuba and Chavez’s Venezuala are not immoral? North Korea? I’m sure if you asked those who lived or are living in those brutal regimes they would argue that conditions are immoral.

    But those are communist regimes. What about socialism? I guess you could look at the high unemployment and high poverty surrounding modern socialism and prove it’s immorality there. Remember back to the European heat wave in 2003. The socialist gov’t and socialist healthcare systems were unable to cope and over 50,000 people died. I’d put that on the immoral side of the equation considering the avoidability. We could point to the tens of thousands that die every year in Canada waiting for procedures and call that immoral. But for some reason, this is what some people want. I can understand the politicans wanting to do this because it expand their power and their income.

  17. NeoConDon says:

    It just seems strange that since I graduated highschool, a new generation of voters has been born, raised, and are now of voting age…they’ve never been told that socialism and communism are bad, and suddenly, socialism is being thrust upon us in private meetings in Washington. I do not believe that is a coincidence…but I do believe that it is immoral.

  18. Daniel Vorhies says:

    Socialism: a political theory advocating state ownership of industry
    Communism: a form of socialism that abolishes private ownership
    fascism: a political theory advocating an authoritarian hierarchical government (as opposed to democracy or liberalism)

    Just for the record, I do believe that both forms of political thought are antithetical to the id of humanity in that self preservation/self centered-ness is an aspect of humanity that can’t be subverted to a higher minded ideal. But as for immoral, outside of my grandpa says so, you’ve not come up with any arguement to support. And for the record, Hitler was a fascist just like Bush was. The key to you arguements that you’ve failed to reference is the frailty of the human condition and our inability to live altruistically. I mentioned in an earlier post the book “Atlas Shrugged” as a panacea to understanding some of the challenges that we face in terms of implementing social agendas. Can you look a starving neighbor in the face and say sucks to be you? Do you give to charity? Have you given someone asking for change in the street money? If so, you’re a socialist. It is a very lonely and isolated position that of the true capitalist and typically reserved for those that think so highly of themselves that they believe that they don’t need anyone else. One day they find out differently.

    The reality is, that unless you’re willing to watch your neighbor die because they aren’t able to support/feed themselves socialism is something that we must live with. That being said, eliminating personal responsibility (which gets gleened over in most conversations of socialism) leads down the more fascist pathways of the hive mind.

    In your last post, you say that socialism is being thrust upon us in private meetings in Washington… Have you been to any of the private meetings? If you know this, how can they be private? Socialism/social assistance/medicare/medicaid have all been implemented as bandaids to the unseemly elements of pure capitalism. There must be balance. Nothing should be given for free and nothing should be taken for free. Until everyone lives this it will always be a battle.

    A quote from you link: “Can a moral case be made for taking the rightful property of one American and giving it to another to whom it does not belong? I think not. That’s why socialism is evil.”

    Follow me here… I’m pretty sure that you didn’t volunteer for either of the conflicts that have occurred in our adult lifetimes (Iraq 1&2) and yet you let others go out and fight those battles for your american ideals and I’m sure you validate paying your taxes in that most of the money goes to national defense. Yet, how is that process any different than when someone gets social assistance (in whatever form) and allows someone else to go out and fight for them and their needs? I guess what I’m saying is that you can’t have it both ways. You either need to admit that we need some forms of socialism or live a life of true capitalism. I’m not throwing stones, but if it is true that you’re not working right now… without the social assistance your wife is providing you, we wouldn’t be having this civil discussion online. It seems a tenuous position for you to support if indeed your wife is providing for you. If you lost your job did you take unemployment? Were you greatful? Thank socialism.

    And for the record to all of the name callers… when you throw names like moron around, the only one being proved a moron is the person speaking it.

    Please read “Atlas Shrugged” and understand what role personal responsibility NEEDS to play in any society.

  19. NeoConDon, you just LOVE the sound of your own thoughts, don’t you? Why when people disagree with you are they liars or idiots? Who the fuck are YOU? In the grand scheme of things you are just a little man among the many upon the land. Get over yourself dude, you’re still a child that can’t accept the fact that others have their own opinions and that its okay.

  20. NeoConDon says:

    I just can’t go on here. It is absolutley absurd to call Bush a fascist. I see the current administration being loaded with fascist thought when it comes to only gov’t can fix the problems, murdering unborn babies, the environmentalist wackos, socialist medicine, etc. They won’t allow debate and they’re running legislation through under the cover of darkness.

    I’ve read Atlas Shrugged. It makes an excellent argument and prediction. It is still fiction.

    But to call Bush a fascist and socialism/communism not immoral is flat out absurd.

    Regarding not working, that was a choice. I made and banked several years of income between 2001 and 2005 and I now stay home with my 4 sons. I worked part time for a few months at the onset, but it didn’t work out. I still play music at the professional level and do some website work, but my main focus is raising my boys and keeping them out of day care. We’ve grown pretty comfortable by saving money shopping at Walmart, we own and pay cash for our cars,we take two family vacations every year, we don’t borrow money (ever), and we’ll have our house paid off in about 7 years. As a sales professional, I only work for 100% commission and I don’t take draws against commission. I negotiate with my healthcare providers. When I return to work, we’ll have a $150,000 income with no debt living in Cleveland, Ohio. I am the epitome of personal responsibility. The MORONS in the gov’t are only capable of building roads, fighting wars and changing lightbulbs in street lights.

  21. NeoConDon says:

    I appreciate your thoughts Christina, but there’s certainly no need to attack me. I’m just curious why you don’t find Hitler, Stalin, or Castro as being immoral..???

    I understand how closed minded liberals can be, and I’m merely trying to understand why they think the way they do. Perhaps they were lied to in school. Maybe they missed the days socialism and communism were explained. Maybe they weren’t paying attention.

    I never called you an idiot or a liar. I’m guilty of calling Zig a moron…I you ever met him, you’d understand why….LOL

  22. Daniel Vorhies says:

    Please don’t take my comments offensively. I wasn’t insinuating that your not being employed wasn’t a choice. My point was that without your wife’s income supporting you and your four sons, you wouldn’t be in a comfortable position. That is a form of socialism. Good for you on the no loans/personal responsibility. Not many live that way… And of course Atlas Shrugged is fiction, the point is the ideals expressed, not the potential reality of it. And maybe my moron comment should have had an exception clause for any elected official… you won’t find me arguing that.

    Bush was extremely fascist in his presidency…from the definition: a political theory advocating an authoritarian hierarchical government.

    He/Cheney ruled with an iron fist. There was no room for outside opinion. Again, just as you have yet to prove the immorality of communism/socialism (yet I will agree with you that the humans that have so far tried to implement the beliefs may have been both of those and fascist too). Prove to me that Bush/Cheney DIDN’T rule with an iron fist in a FASCIST manner. He was the decider…

  23. NeoConDon says:

    ? ? [fash-iz-uhm]
    1. (sometimes initial capital letter) a governmental system led by a dictator having complete power, forcibly suppressing opposition and criticism, regimenting all industry, commerce, etc., and emphasizing an aggressive nationalism and often racism.


    I cannot come up with a single example of Bush/Cheney Fascism, can you? They never had complete power, and Bush gave a lot of power to the libs. But we could apply this definition to the congressional liberals and describe them as fascists. It would be a stretch, but it’s possible. I would certainly label the environmentalist kooks that are throwing global warming and the taxes in our face without allowing for the thousands of scientists that have proven them wrong to hold a public debate. That is fascism in its simplest form.

    Don’t worry Dan…you can’t hurt my feelings or offend me. I’m not a fluff boy like some of the others that leave comments.

  24. Daniel Vorhies says:

    Well, you may be a fluff boy but that’s another story all together…

    As for countering your arguement… see below. By YOUR definition… FASCIST

    Aggressive Nationalism – Freedom Fries / Xenophobia / Border fence
    Regimenting all industry – Haliburton’s profits went up 3000% in 4 years and Blackwater had more hired mercenaries working in Iraq than we had actual US soldiers
    Suppressing Opposition – Torture / US attorneys / Florida 2000 – Ohio 2004
    Suppressing Criticism – “You’re either with us or against us”
    Complete Power – The Un Patriotic Act / the suspension of th writ of habeus corpus and and the suspension of Posse Commitatus act

  25. NeoConDon says:

    Maybe….maybe…the patriot act…maaybe….but, there were endless debates, and sunsets in place, approved by congress on both sides of the aisles and concurred by the courts. That is the antithesis of fascism. The rest I just don’t buy as fascism. I do have a I (heart) Haliburton Tee shirt. They’re a great american company! The tee gets it’s share of great looks, especially in the liberal cesspool known as Cleveland, OH.

  26. I appreciate your thoughts too Don I just wish that you would realize that not everyone is going to agree with you all the time. And you saying “I often wonder if Christina is repeating the same lies told to us in our schools and universities about socialism and communism not being immoral” indicates that you think I am a liar. I am not a liar by any means. I don’t think its a matter of lieing anyway, its a matter of opinion.

  27. Daniel Vorhies says:

    Come on…. FREEDOM FRIES! THAT’S fascism! I look forward to your next misguided opinion… 🙂 What’s your frequency on writing here? You’ve been driving me nuts with your conservative taint on FB. I’m glad I’ve finally got an appropriate outlet to punch back a little. It’s one thing to be conservative, it’s quite another to not think about it….

  28. NeoConDon says:

    I’d be real interested to hear your explanation of why “Freedom Fries” is fascist…It was a joke that congress put up when France was too afraid to commit troops in the Iraq War and were spouting off with anti-american dialouge. If all you got is “Bush is a fascist because some private businesses and a congressional cafateria renamed french fries to freedom fries”, I’d say you were the one not thinking…at least not thinking clearly.

  29. NeoConDon says:

    Christina, if you don’t see gov’t murdering it’s own citizens as not immoral, I’m not sure what to say. Those are facts, not opinions. There’s an entire museum in Washington devoted to the subject.

    Our schools are clearly lying to our children when it comes to history. That doesn’t mean you’re lying, you’re simply believing the lies you’ve been told. There are dozens of books written on the subject. In 1990, I was told that McCarthy never outed a single communist. That is a pure lie. After the fall of the Soviet Union, and the release of the Russian Cables, we learned exactly how right McArthy was, but no text books are teaching our children the truth.

    I only deal in facts. I’m happy to give the truth as I see it based on my experiences. There’s no question that there is quite a difference between L.A. and Cleveland…except both cities are failing because of liberalism, and both have failing school systems…more facts, not opinions.

  30. Daniel Vorhies says:

    Out of everything I referenced, freedom fries were the LEAST fascist… most funny, but LEAST fascist. Only slightly fascist for their xenophobic bend… oh, and you skipped over the posse commitatus act / us attorneys / torture / border fence and suspension of the writ of habeus corpus.

    Wait, Are vacations fascist? Because if vacations are fascist, he makes hitler look like a jew! All kidding aside, outing commies on the other hand IS fascism… freedom of thought is central to our democracy… McCarthy, definitely didn’t help that. You make him sound like a hero and in case you didn’t know it thought police is a VERY communist idea.

  31. NeoConDon says:

    Not sure how not building a border fence is fascist…builing one wouldn’t be fascist, it would be smart. I’m not familiar with the Bush administration engaging in torture. You must be mistaken there. The US attorneys…our political system is also called the “spoils” system. The president can fire anyone for any reason, especially if they’re too liberal. Certainly not fascist, it’s part of our political system. Habeus corpus is guaranteed to citizens, not terrorists shooting at our soldiers. Lincoln suspended Habeus corpus.

    McCarthy IS an Amercian Hero! Remember what grandpa said…The only good commie is a dead commie and the best dead commie is the one I got. The commies he got were traitors. That violates The Constitution. It’s not illegal to be a commie, it’s illegal to be a traitor.

    I’m wondering if you even know what fascism means…respectfully, of course. It’s as if you’re speaking a different language. How did Pink Floyd put it…??? “And if the band you’re in starts playing different tunes…”

  32. Don, I don’t pretend to be a know-it-all. I know I don’t know even 1/50th of what a lot of other people know on this matter so I could very possibly be completely wrong with what I think about it. Perhaps you have some reading you could suggest to me on the matter…I’m not being a jerk either, I’m serious.

  33. NeoConDon says:

    My suggestions, Christina would be to start by renting “John Adams” on DVD. It is a seven hour mini-series by HBO based on the book by David Mccullough. It was a great read and very emotional, but very long. The DVD really does it all and it is available on NetFlix.

    Then read at least one of “The Real” Series by Jay A. Parry. There is “The Real Benjamin Franklin”, “The Real George Washington”, and “The Real Thomas Jefferson.” These books along with the John Adams DVD will give you a great foundation of our founding and the purpose behind it.

    Then I’d move on to “The 5000 Year Leap” by W. Cleon Skousen, and of course, “Common Sense” by Thomas Paine.

    After reading those, find a couple modern books with liberal ideas and a couple books with conservative ideas. There are plenty to choose from. You could read one of Obama’s books, or one of the Clinton books. I think “Liberal Fascism” by Johna Goldberg is thought provoking on the conservative side. I’ve mentioned Atlas Shrugged a few times in my writing, and if you have the time to invest, read it…It’s a very fun and thought provoking work of fiction.

    There is a lot of good and bad stuff out there. You won’t know until you pick a few things up and give it a try. But, whether you think you’re a liberal, conservative, or moderate, this is not the environment to not read. I read a lot of liberal stuff so I can keep up with them. Zig on the other hand was told in highschool that when done the right way, socialism is a good system… but he never took a history class to learn what it really is…and from what I know of Zig, he doesn’t read. I’m allowed to hack on Zig though.

  34. Great info – thank you. I will indeed check out your suggestions.

  35. Daniel Vorhies says:

    John Adams is a great watch and indeed Common Sense is a patriot’s duty to read. Indeed, if you can keep from falling asleep, the Federalist Papers are incredibly enlightening as to the derivation of what liberties and civil responsibility is about. Truly, that has been the underlying arguement to what Don and I have been arguing. Generalizing of course, he posits that liberals don’t take responsibility for themselves and socially look to the “system” to take care of them, while conservatives are stolen from to support the blood sucking communist liberals. And as Don pointed our early on in our discourse, for being on VERY opposite sides of the political spectrum, we’re not far apart in terms of the actual LIVING of our political views. Personal responsibility is key.

    Now on with the countdown….

    No torture? No torture? If nothing else that PROVES that you are only seeing what you want to see. Just because some lackey attorney in the administration “approved” enhanced interrogation techniques doesn’t erase the decades of prosecution for the same actions in previous situations against American soldiers. THE USA HAS PROSECUTED OUR ENEMIES FOR THE SAME TREATMENT OF AMERICAN SOLDIERS. Are you going to use the because the President says it’s not illegal, that makes it not illegal arguement?

    There is a history of prosecution in many cultures against the types of crimes committed by the Bush administration.

    Besides, it has been proven time and again, torture doesn’t work. They’ll confess to stealing the hope diamond so you don’t continue what you’re doing.

    Those who exchange liberty for safety deserve neither.

  36. NeoConDon says:

    Just because King Barry and John McCain think what the CIA did is torture, doesn’t make it torture….but to be clear….If I were President, I’d authorize shooting holes in the knee caps of terrorists caught on the battlefield while their family members were forced to watch if we had reason to believe we could prevent more plains flying into buildings.

    We need to wait and see what really happened and what the results were. Right now, we’re debating over something we have no facts about. But on the Geneva convention agreements, the terrorists on the battlefield do not recognize the Geneva convention because they do not fall under the protections of the Geneva convention…obviously that is under debate as well. But there’s one thing I just can’t figure out…why are the libs so fast to grant constitutional protections to foreign terrorists, but continue to attempt to take them away from american citizens?

    But you still fail to explain why what you call “torture” is fascist…

  37. Kusc says:

    Wow, Don, calling him King Barry really proves a point. So I’ll just call you an infant. Now we’re even. Moron.

  38. NeoConDon says:


    That’s His Royal Highness, King Barry the Great….

  39. Zig says:

    Kristan says, “Zig, what’s cruel and immoral is that promises were made to you that cannot possibly be sustained. All of your lifelong benefits are nothing more than promises and they simply cannot be there for you in the long run. You might as well work for GM.” Dude, are you for real? I am under the same retirememnt system as the people who decide and vote to continue retirement benefits for Federal employees…that would be your elected officials! They will never vote outside their own selfinterests! I feel pretty safe with my LIFETIME INSURANCE, PENSION and THRIFT SAVINGS PLAN, government’s idea of 401K!

    Kristan also says, “The economy is contracting. Jobs are vanishing and tax receipts are plummeting. It is only a matter of time until entitlement programs fail officially and government itself is forced to either shrink to proper levels or be overthrown. That is change you can believe in.” I am not scared. This has all happened before and the people at the top of the food chain always seem to win! Deal with it and put away your class envy! Envy is not becoming and does nothing for you in the log run… Same goes for NCD!

  40. Zig says:

    Fredom fries are a Xenophobic attempt, by the Bush administation, to paint the french as BAD!

    Christina, don’t listen to anythig Don says and certainly do not fall for his simplistic ways. One finds the political views based on the life experience and not from any book! Do as I do and listen to him and forget everyting he says!

  41. NeoConDon says:


    You need to try to get more sleep…you’re going berzerk. For some reason you think that socalist medicine means your coverage and quality won’t get worse…wake up, it’s all getting worse…at least as bad as Canada, and maybe as bad as the U.K. When an American wants to avoid dying while in a waiting line, we’ll have to go where the American doctors go after His Royal Highness King Barry the Great and President Pelosi take away our rights and create socialist healthcare…the epitome of liberal fascism and cruelty. Unless the vast right wingers begin the revolution of 2010… :=)

  42. Zig says:

    NCD, Dude, you are ridiculously wrong. The “super” care, of which you speak, is already beyond “everyman’s” ability to pay. You can’t even pay or see the inside of a SUPER doctor’s office…even with your wife’s insurance! The free heart surgery and free plastic surgery is never gonna happen. The free quality of care initiative of which I speak is free chloresterol testing, cancer screening, and heart checkups… the bare minimum needed to keep a person healthy. You can keep your “Super” care. I foresee a healthcare system where the uninsured and the underinsured have access to simple rights, i.e. screening and testing, like the right to live free from disease and find self determination! Isn’t the right to “self-determination” promised to all Americans in the Constitution?

    Your KING BARRY and GREAT PRESIDENT PELOSI routine is getting old and, frankly, sad and below you, NCD! When ar eyou going top realize that he is a great president and he is only out to help people like you, unemployed bottom feeders!

  43. NeoConDon says:

    You crack me up Ziggy, and if it wouldn’t hurt the rest of America, I’d wish King Barry’s cruel socialist health care on you and your family…I’d love for you to experience the evils of socialist health care…

    You’re in a gov’t office everyday (except for the 13 weeks of paid vacation you lazy bums get), would you really want the moron in the cubical next to you determining what medical procedures you get? I can assure you Zig that I don’t want you to even be responsible for making copies of and filing my medical records….

  44. Zig says:

    NCD, you are very very very misinformed…as usual! I have the BEST Insurance. I get the BEST CARE. If you don’t want any help and if you want to suffer more, I will let you..only you though! The cost of medical care is rising higher than salaries and inflation. But, you don’t have a JOB. Yuo don’t care about the common man’s strugles. Your wife is a teacher. You don’t need to worry about decling salaries and the declinig buying power of wages… You are set for life, right? You are not worth my time. You are going to die fat, young and stupid. It is only my wish that your children have the opportunity to realize the promise of the true human right of some free medical care!

    No one wil be determing anything about what medial care I get. Certainly no untrained Governemt employee will be deciding what kind of care I receive. Oh, my bad…the only Government employeee who will be deciding what medical care I get is ME! You need to do some research. The socialized medicine of which you speak is nothing like what OBAMA is proposing! Like Styles said,you won’t listen to anyone or anything else that doesn’t ocme out of your own misinformed diseased mouth!

  45. NeoConDon says:

    You make me laugh, Zig…

    Based on some new polls and information that’s coming out, it doesn’t look like he’ll be able to get anything done before the mid-terms. That’s certainly good news for America. It’s too bad that you won’t get the opportunity to experience socialist medicine though….I was looking forward to you complaining about how there aren’t any doctors, the lines are long, and your premiums doubled…

  46. Zig says:

    NCD, considering I am, presumably, the only one who had a catastropic event which required extensive medical attention on the board, it is no wonder you don’t know about what you speak…

    A Conservative, on medical issues, is a person who has never had one of his or her loved one’s experience a catastrophic, life changing, bank account draining illness of accident! I wish you and your 4 active children well. When such an event befalls you and you are left pay your unpaid doctor’s bills, I will ask your opinion on socialized medicine.

    I am not for a single payer system because of my past experience with the medical arena. I am for the single payer system because it is the right thing to do!

  47. NeoConDon says:

    Zig, your accident has nothing to do with socialist medicine or the discussion we’re having. But, if King Barry’s cruel health care system were to come into existence, a person experiencing what you experienced would not receive the care you did…it would be worse. There will be less doctors, less procedures, less facilities, and prices will be much higher. It is a cruel system that is killing people all over the world. Tens of thousands of people died in Europe a couple years ago during a heat wave because their cruel socialist health care system couldn’t take care of the poor people. Those people were poor because of socialism. If you call that the right thing to do, you really need to get yourself educated, because that is cruel and immoral.

  48. Tristan says:

    Zig, first of all my name is Tristan, not Kristan. I’m sure Don has an appropriate public school literacy joke for that mistake.

    Regarding your future livelihood, I am well aware that elected officials will not act against their own self interest. What should be alarming to you is that I am not so rare a mindset in that respect these days. What should alarm you more is that I purposely used the word “unsustainable”. It doesn’t matter what elected officials do or say. Unsustainable means the end is coming, and unless you think we’re going to continue to pay you ridiculous benefits for mediocre work (not personal…that is what government produces) when we are struggling to make ends meet, you will not be immune to this fact.

    I’m interested in what you do know about our present situation, since you blindly believe that “this has all happened before”. Please enlighten me on the state of our economy and how this relates to anything less than the Great Depression, because I’m looking beyond that, even. You tell me how we can “recover” and I’ll tell you why you’re wrong.

  49. NeoConDon says:

    I think Zig’s misunderstand is a product of the way we’re teaching our children. This is not a zero-sum game. If the gov’t gets (more) involved in medecine, it will become more expensive, and someone has to bear that burden. In every other nation where King Barry’s health care system exists, it is a failure compared to our system. There is not a single country on this planet that matches the high quality of our healthcare system. Of course there are problems, but most are related to gov’t intrusion.

  50. Zig says:

    Kristan, I was refering to the great depression, in my comments about it all happening before… Only, back then there was not a Government agency to deal with the problem. We now have the FED and it’s CHAIRMAN and board of governors! The FED is doing a hell of a job to get the economy back on track. They have made bold policy changes and will continue to put in place whatever policies it takes. I am confident the Fed will make whatever steps and tough decisions it takes to help the economy recover fully! Now, what kind of argument do you have? Ben Bernanke is a scholar of the great depression and knows what went wrong and what steps are needed to prevent it’s reoccurance.

    Kristan, why would I respond to your comment, “You tell me how we can “recover” and I’ll tell you why you’re wrong.”? We will get through this and we will be better for gone through it! Now that I have stepped into your arena, shoot me down, big balls!

    Again, you say, “Unsustainable means the end is coming.” What? “Unsustainable,” as you have used it here, implies the change is coming, which has been my mantra for the last 2 years!

    NCD, dude, you are not listening to me again. I received the BEST care available to me after my accident. The superior care I received was was a result of my father having the same health insurance that everyone would receive under an OBAMA plan. My father, the principle insurance holder, was a Federal employee! Under the Obama plan, the same insurance Federal employees have is what would be offered to all citizens of the United States. As for your opinion that care will become “inferior” after socialized medicine goes into effect, you are wrong. I know you are implying that when socialized medicine goes into effect, the financial incentive won’t be there to provide superior medical care. Many great doctors are also good people and aren’t solely in it for the money! After a certain point, money loses it’s rewarding ability. The great doctors are in to provide a service to humanity. But, you wouldn’t and will never know about eithe rof my previous points, PWT!

  51. NeoConDon says:

    C’mon Zig. You’re a dreamer. No one goes that far into debt to make less money. No one works that hard to make less money. The doctors will leave, the lines will get longer, there will be less innovation because money motivates innovation. Your care will get worse…just like EVERYONE elses. That’s what socialism is. It creates mindless slaves and gets them to accept poverty. Medicare for all at three times the price…sounds great!

  52. Tristan says:

    Zig, you have no idea what you’re talking about. The Federal Reserve was established by the Federal Reserve Act of 1913–nearly 20 years prior to Great Depression I. This is likely the CAUSE of the Great Depression. Ben Bernanke is a “scholar of the Great Depression” alright, but he has absolutely no idea what caused it or what he is doing now. He cut interest to zero in a desperate attempt to spur spending. The savings rate spiked. He’s been buying up the long end of T-bills from the Treasury in a desperate attempt to secure funding for the Federal Government. The opposite is happening. The Federal Government is broke and losing ALL hope of ever repaying debt.

    Bernanke is a fool following flawed ideologies with no place in the real world. He’s playing a game with our nation, trying to prove his ridiculous theories, just as Greenspan did prior to him. Economics is not a simple, closed system, as he believes. He is also a criminal who, along with then-Treasury-secretary Hank Paulson, extorted Ken Lewis, the criminal CEO of Bank of America, into buying Merrill Lynch, the criminal organization that paid billions of dollars in bonuses using taxpayer money while collapsing in on its own losses.

    Zig, your argument amounts to blind faith in something that you don’t understand. Check out market-ticker.org or somewhere that people actually understand reality and then tell me how this is all going to work out. “We will get through this and will be better for [having] gone through it!” I heard it the first time Obama said it, you don’t need to repeat it. How about backing it up with facts?

    The “change” you believe in is absolutely not the change that will happen. Do you honestly believe that Obama is cutting government spending as promised??? He increased the deficit by over a TRILLION dollars, as if Bush’s record deficits weren’t bad enough! This is not mathematically-feasible. That is what unsustainable means. Social Security and Medicare are massive, unfunded liabilities. The massive Baby Boomer generation is starting to retire. GDP will contract on demographics alone, not to mention a collapsing economy. Tax receipts are collapsing. Banking institutions are insolvent. California is bankrupt. Your argument is utterly-void of any substance. The real estate markets will collapse at least another 10% this year. 600k+ jobs are lost every month. No job, no equity, no savings…goodbye, home! More poverty, less spending, businesses collapse, more jobs are lost, LESS tax receipts, MORE unsustainable spending by government…deflationary spiral… GREAT DEPRESSION II.

    Good luck with your future, Zig, and have fun cheering for Obama and Bernanke.

  53. Zig says:

    Kristan, why are you switching Government liabilities on me? I thought we were discussing how my own personal situation, “insurance for life,” wasn’t happening. Are you for real? I will admit that the spending habits of the Government are a bit outragous… The US dollar is not backed by gold, but is backed my a promise made by Government of the United States to all holders of US currency. The US Government prints money. The “potential” of the US is unmatched, unrivaled and unimagineable. The value of the dollar is whatever the US Government and it’s potential tells us it is. You can live in messed up, fatalistic, pessimistic world of defeatism all you want. I like to live my life free from fear. If the economy collapses, there wil be a plentiful amount of company, with you, at the bottom of the food chain.

    As far as Ben Bernanke being a criminal, i.e. “He is also a criminal who, along with then-Treasury-secretary Hank Paulson, extorted Ken Lewis, the criminal CEO of Bank of America, into buying Merrill Lynch, the criminal organization that paid billions of dollars in bonuses using taxpayer money while collapsing in on its own losses,” ecomonics is not simple. Economics is the science of predicting human behavoir, as it reales to spending habits and purchasing paterns, therefore, it is kind of life predicting the future. Bernanke is a Government employee who is trying everything he can to keep this economy from falling off the cliff. Any Federal Reserve chairman is an idea guy that follows the momentum. Because one cannot predict the future, a knowledge of history is the only weapon the Chairman has to manage current events. I would take an openminded, arm twisting and market pleasing chairman 100 times over any other kind of ecomic fundalmentalist wonk. I believe that history will judge the current chairman and his response to the situation fairly well.

    For the statement, “Check out market-ticker.org or somewhere that people actually understand reality and then tell me how this is all going to work out,” you are an idiot. The wonks over at market-ticker.org are loving you. You see, they get paid by advertisers based on the amount of people who read the articles on their site. No sane minded newshound is going to read a story, on the internet, entitled, “Everything will be fine.” Readers love sensationalistic titles and stories. The people over at market-ticker.org are just playing with your human nature, Loser!

    Obama inherited this mess from the previous administration and is doing it’s best to make sure this mess never happens again. If he didn’t make bold moves, the idiot right would say he doesn’t care about the people who got him elected, which would be a disaster for him politically! That is why he is allowing the Fed to make such outragous decisions! Obama will run and win again in 2012… As I’ve shown, Kristan, people who speak so intelligently politically and on econmic issues can be easily taken down by a little common sense…

    NCD, FU!

  54. NeoConDon says:

    If I wasn’t a conservative, I’d wish ill will on you and hope King Barry’s health care scheme actually happens. But, I care too much about the least among us, so I hope he fails in getting it passed. I just wish for one day I could be as cruel as the liberals…

  55. Zig says:

    NCD, I know you aren’t a true conservative… A true Conservative male wouldn’t let his wife get up every day and go to work for the family. A TRUE Conservative wouldn’t cry foul and hide behind the guise of paying too much in taxes…to get a JOB. My grandfather was a Conservative. A true Conservative is hardworking, honest and commonly an ALPHA Male. A true Conservative doesn’t look to the outside world to find validation for his ideas. A true Conservative is a nobel being. You are a lazy buffoon!

  56. NeoConDon says:

    All of that coming from a gov’t “worker”…??? Sorry Zig, but you’re clearly not intelligent enough to understand conservatism. All you understand is the cruelty of liberalism.

  57. Tristan says:

    Zig, you are hopeless, your “common sense” is neither common nor sensible. Government liabilities are important because that is what your benefits package is. You are a government worker. You rely on government funding. There is no government funding, therefore, you will have no benefits package. The USD is “backed” by the unsinkable Titanic. The fact that you think its value is “unimaginable” means you are in completely over your head. Read a little about fiat money systems if you want to learn. I live in the real world, not the world of defeat. You live in a world of sunshine and denial. Keep taking that blue pill, ignorance is bliss. Just don’t be surprised when you wake up one day and everything you know is gone.

    I am neither afraid nor defeated. I wish this unwind would happen already so we can get started on the recovery, but every day that Obama and Bernanke keep the corpse on a ventilator, the more rot, decay, and pestilence we’ll have to clean up.

    Bush couldn’t WAIT to get out of office. He knows we’re screwed. If you listen to Obama’s speeches, he knows also, but he’s too weak to know what to do, so he puts all his faith in the people who caused the mess in the first place.

    Bernanke is taking whatever means necessary, eh? How do you feel about Gitmo? Something tells me you think Justice has her left eye open.

    Good for you, going to market-ticker.org and reading a title and an advertisement. Unfortunately, it’s the content of articles that matter. I don’t think I’ve ever known of anyone with their head further in the sand than yours. You see what you want to see and flail desperately to discredit what you won’t want to believe, but you can’t refute a single thing I say.

  58. Zig says:

    Kristen, you must be the life of the party… Tell me, when people (friends) see you coming, do they walk the other way? You must be a great guy to be around, a real life of the party kinda Gal…err guy. From what I can tell you live somewhere around Cleveland. You don’t trust authority and you probably either have been in or are on your way to jail… You seem to be well educated, but you have no common sense! You are a book worm, but you have never been anywhere or done anything important. Your life is pretty shitty? I mean, you cut your grass and trim your hedges, water your grass (not your wife), but that’s all there is in your life. You may have a son or daughter, but they will hate you and call you a know-it-all and rebel as soon as they come of age. You have painted such a bleak picture of the state of our economy. You want us to fail just so you can be right, eh? According to you, all we have left is HOPE

    NCD, FU! I understand conservatism and have seen conservative politics and polititians in action! I have worked in DC (on capitol hill) and Conservatives are mean spirited, pointy headed, know nothing, closed minded freaks…like yourself!

  59. Tristan says:

    Thanks for the horoscope. You’re about 25% right about me. If you don’t understand anything I’m saying, just ask for clarification. It doesn’t need to be personal.

    I’m not some miserable man, blaming society for his own shortcomings and failures. I’ve been quite successful in this world of lies and deceit, financially and emotionally. That doesn’t stop me from seeing the truth of what is to come.

    The situation can be explained with a basic understanding of exponents. For the past 30 years, we’ve used debt to drive prosperity. The problem with this is that debt is not prosperity and at some point you have to pay it back. The other problem is that the more debt you accumulate, the more difficult it is to service it.

    Let’s say you borrow $1/day for lunch for a year. This small bit of debt allows you to eat at the fancy bistro that you normally could not afford. The first year is great, but the second year you need to borrow $2/day–$1 for food, $1 to service the debt (interest) of the previous year. No big deal, it’s still a good year. Then the next year you need $4/day. This continues to $8, $16, $32…each year is more difficult than the last, and there comes a point when it all blows up in your face and you’re borrowing $128 a day just for lunch. Even if you can pull out all the stops and make that happen, there is no way you will ever get $256 a day for the next year.

    Now think of this in terms of federal deficits. Bush had record deficits in the hundreds of billions of dollars. Obama has trillions. How long do you think until it blows up? (I think we’re there right now)

    There is no such thing as a free lunch. That is common sense.

  60. NeoConDon says:

    You’re putting too much effort into this Tristan. Zig is not capable of understanding a simple story like that. He’s too much of an ignorant, mean spirited, close minded, blind faith religious follower of something he’s not capable of understanding, but everyone around him said was a good thing…liberalism.

    People don’t become libs because they make the choice. They do it because they’ve been brain washed into a mind numbed robot to think that the libs actually care for the little guy. But they don’t care enough about the world or our country to actually look beyond the smoke to realize that liberalism creates poverty and keeps the little guy down just so they’ll vote for the same cruel liberal again that promised to help them out of their bad situation.

    I’ve never heard of a conservative that became a liberal, but I know a lot of liberals that realize they were really conservatives.

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