God at Home, or Sex at School…Let the Judge Decide – Guest Post

March 17, 2009 by admncc

Here at The Constant Complainer, in addition to my posts, readers can submit Guest Posts on topics they would like to complain about.  Neo Con Don submitted the below-Guest Post.  His complaint is home schooling.  His second complaint is a judge’s recent ruling regarding a home schooling situation.  My child’s education is always on my mind, so I found this post interesting.  Without further adieu, here’s Don…

I’m not a huge fan of home schooling.  There are several reasons for that.  First, my wife is a public school teacher, and when she gets new students that were home schooled, there is usually a significant learning curve.   It’s not always specifically a learning curve based on knowledge or intelligence; it can be a process curve that affects the new student’s learning.  For example, the new student may be a great speller, understands how to write complex sentences, and has a great vocabulary but doesn’t know how to dissect a sentence at the same level of her class.  They are also not used to the strict time schedule.  So, when a home schooled student enters an organized classroom, it’s a challenge to both the student and the classroom.

As I said, I am not a fan of it, but I am not at all against home schooling.   If a parent does not trust their public school district, and cannot afford to send their children to an acceptable private school, home schooling is a wonderful alternative.  However, it is extremely important that the students are regularly tested to make sure they are keeping up with their public school counterparts, and the home school “teachers” are assessed and engaging in continuing education.  This is what’s most important:  As long as the students are at or above the required level of their public school counterparts, and the parent has demonstrated their grasp on the required curriculum, a parent has every right to home school their children.

So I became extremely concerned when I read this article about a North Carolina woman.

Her soon to be ex-husband has expressed concern with her teaching (because she teaches her children about God), and a judge has ordered the children be put into public school.  Excuse me?  This Judge does not have the authority to force these children into public school because he has a problem with them learning about God.  Well God per se, but he felt they needed to be given a more mainstream education in science.  Well that’s very interesting seeing as there are only two instances where God and science have some friction:  Darwin’s Theory and the Big Bang Theory.  Everything else in science is pretty straight forward and doesn’t try to counteract the God issue.  I would imagine that when this mother gets to the Darwin chapter, she’ll simply say “now this is one theory.  It’s very important that you learn this for the test, and you’ll likely never need to deal with it again…we call that a ‘temporary suspension of disbelief.’  Now let’s move on to literature class where we’re going to read a classic poem entitled The Rhyme of the Ancient Mariner, where the main lesson from an interpretive standpoint is a ‘temporary suspension of disbelief.'”

These children are reportedly testing two grade levels ahead.  This mother is clearly doing a fantastic job teaching her children.  They are meeting and exceeding the standards required by the state.  What would public school be like for these children?  Will it be too easy?  Will they be placed a grade or two higher and not with other children their own age and physical development level?

How far will this type of gov’t invasion go?  If this judge can get away with this, there is no telling where we will end up.  I will never stop my pursuit of what’s right until this agenda of hate and meanness ends.

There are all kinds of problems here, but the most problematic is a judge making a decision about a responsible parent’s decision to home school.   The oldest child is 12 years old, and if I were a betting man, I’d bet that child knows more about the Constitution and the First Amendment than EVERYONE in her public school including her new teachers.  Probably more than this judge for that matter.

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Comments

  1. KIM says:

    I read the article and your column and my guess is there is more to this than a simple ruling on home schooling. If the mother is home schooling, then she cannot work. This may have been an economic decision when hashing out their finances, who makes what kind of $$, and how they will support their kids post-divorce.

  2. Zig says:

    NCD, you are an idiot! I was beginning to see your point until you wrote this, “The oldest child is 12 years old, and if I were a betting man, I’d bet that child knows more about the Constitution and the First Amendment than EVERYONE in her public school including her new teachers. Probably more than this judge for that matter.”

    I was beginning to see your point until you wrote this. Your only atempt here was to be sensationalistic! What 12 year old is smarter than a Federal judge, on any issue?

    Were you home schooled, because you don’t really know much about punctuation? You describe a “homeschooled” pupil’s learning like this, “It’s not always specifically a learning curve based on knowledge or intelligence; it can be a process curve that affects the new student’s learning.” This description of a “homeschooled” pupil sounds strikingly similar to a student with a learning disability. I am not saying that all homescholled students have learning disabilities, but many do. Does your public school teacher wife know how to deal with pupil’s with learning disabilities? You also speak of God and the Bible not “having friction.” What about Noah’s Ark? Because, in Noah’s Ark, the earth was flooded, therefore, Noah built an Ark to save 2 of each kind of animal. What does science say about every type of animal being wiped off the earth by a flood?

    Also, what about the Emaculate Conception? The bible is filled with fables… You need to stop talking like an authority and accept your own limitations, regarding learning and politics! You are an barely educated, lazy, stay at home father who likes to hear himself talk! Get out of your house and engage someone other than your kids who are tought not to argue with their father and have an adult conversation, with an learned adult! You will be amazed at how little you know and your “THEORIES” don’t float with Adults!

  3. c.princess says:

    Religious belief isn’t the only reason why some parents choose home schooling. Many parents travel constantly for one reason or another and home schooling works best for their child because the child stays on a regular schedule and are not constantly in and out of different schools. This is crucial, children who are home schooled are not all religious freaks or have religious freaks for parents.

  4. Sugar says:

    My brother and I were homeschooled when we were younger for about 5 years. Let me tell you, you will only advance if your “teacher” actually knows what they are teaching about. You can be the brightest kid, but if you are being taught the wrong way, then you will learn the wrong way. Just like in the movie “The Waterboy”, just because ‘Momma says that alligators are ornery because they got all them teeth and no toothbrush’, don’t mean it’s true.

  5. NeoConDon says:

    Hey Zig,
    You’re not a parent, and won’t be one for at least 3 years (until then you’re a baby sitter). Let me explain something to you that might help you in that part of your life:

    A person that stays at home with 4 children can’t be lazy. We are in the world every day. My job as a stay home dad is more challenging than any I’ve ever had, and it is the most rewarding I’ll ever have. I do more in one day than you do in a year.

    As a stay home dad, I’m the one that gets up at 6am to get the first two off to school, and the last to go to sleep (usually after midnight) so I can make sure there are enough clean clothes to wear and the house is straight and take time to read 100 pages every day… Oh, and if one of them wakes up sick in the middle of the night, guess who handles it?

    I’m also the family’s treasurer, budgeter, shopper, landscaper, electrician, plumber, auto mechanic, home work checker, football coach, baseball coach, soccer coach, music teacher, bicycle fixer, doctor, conceal and carry permit holder, head diciplinarian, judge, and jury.

    But most important…My wife and I had the foresight, determination, and a little luck to be able to have one of us there when the kids get home from school. We don’t need to rely on anyone else watching our kids while we work or if they get sick. We don’t owe anyone any money except for our house and some student loans. We will own our house free and clear in less than 7 years.

    I don’t know what world you live in, but you can’t be lazy to get into the position my family is in…you have to be intelligent, disciplined, and relentless.

    But, if you think this is so easy, come on over and give it a try. I guarantee you’ll quit in the first hour.

  6. This is a divorce case, and the circumstances are unique to divorce law. The ex-husband, who has an equal interest in the upbringing of his children, objected to a curriculum that excluded exposure to science and evolution. The ex-wife, a member of a fundamentalist Christian church called “Sound Doctrine,” testified to the Court that she could not and would not expose the children to science or evolution. So the judge, who has to consider the children’s welfare and the objection by the father, required that the children attend public school in order to be exposed to scientific principles that the mother would not agree to teach her children.

    It’s a mistake to overlay broad conservative or libertarian or religious freedom arguments onto this case, in my view.

  7. NeoConDon says:

    Here’s another article that goes a little further in telling both sides of the story.
    http://www.worldnetdaily.com/index.php?fa=PAGE.view&pageId=92102

    I predict an appeal and these kids will likely continue on with home schooling – the correct outcome, assuming the information about their testing level is correct.

  8. Sugar says:

    Both parents should have a say in the education/well being of their children.

    I am not a fan of homeschooling because my father had no choice in the matter. My Mother (like this woman) got involved with a church that frowned upon public schools and having ideas other than their own. Since my parents were divorced, and we moved over 500 miles away from my father, he really had no say in our education (this was during the early 80’s). Like these children, we were “ahead” of our grades. But, reality came stomping back in when my brother and I were placed back in public school and ended up being put in LD (learning disability) classes b/c we wern’t up to speed with the other children in our origional grades. Thank goodness for the tutors in the public schools that helped us learn the correct way and got us back on track.

    Social skills also play a huge part in this! Kids need to be around other children and people. Different settings, different situations, etc. They need to know reality.

  9. Hal says:

    I’d like to meet the teacher that taught Zig most of his rhetoric. Good post. Based on those kids I’ve met over the years who have been home schooled, I will say one thing. I think they lack socially.

    I relate it to something that you might think is strange…the people who went to college, but don’t live in the dorm. If you truly want to experience college, live in the dorms and experience all that comes with it. No offense to anyone who this applies to, but I’ve always felt the people who lived at home and commuted to college were a little off. If you couldn’t afford to, that’s fine, but you still missed out on the social aspect.

  10. Hal says:

    Above, I meant “good post” to NeoConDon, not Zig. Sorry Zig. You were way off the mark on this one.

  11. Janie says:

    This is a neat blog.

    I hope Zig is not married or a parent because he will show little respect to his children and spouse.

    Stay home parents are not lazy. They have one of the most challenging jobs in the country.

    Just like the author I am not a huge fan of home schooling, but a parent has the right to do it.
    My kids go to public school but I know a lot of home school kids and there is most difinatley a social issue. A good parent will be concious of that and will make that part of the schooling. Many of them still participate in sports and other activities that help with the social interaction and relationship building. For the most part, the home school kids I know are better behaved and more polite than the public school kids. I’ve also noticed that they take better care of their belongings. I have not seen a homschool kid that behaved like Adam Sandler.

    I’m not capable of homeschooling,so I don’t do it. But if these kids are ahead, there’s no reason to pull them out. Social services should interview the children and give 3rd parties a chance to make recommendations. Otherwise, this will look like an instance of pure religious hate and nothing more.

  12. NeoConDon says:

    Thanks Hal. It will be interesting to watch how this story unfolds. We may be watching history in the making with this one especially if it finds a way to move up the Federal Court System.

  13. Zig says:

    NCD, you should have mentioned in your idiotic rant that you have to be all those things and “STUPID…” NCD writes, “I don’t know what world you live in, but you can’t be lazy to get into the position my family is in…”. Now, I will mention another weakness of the character known as NCD. NCD doesn’t know the rules of grammar. One is not suppose to end a sentence with a preposiiton! I thought you were married to a teacher… You are paying back money for an education you never received, Idiot!

    Janie, you weren’t home schooled, were you? I say so, because your punctuation sucks! BTW, what does Adam Sandler have to do with Homeschooling?

    Hal, just say what you think and let the chips fall where they may. HOMESCHOOLED KIDS are LOSERS, NCD is wrong this time and always and ZIG is right always!

  14. Zig says:

    NCD, if you had better time management skills, you would be a better parent!

  15. Zig says:

    Now, NCD, you say, “Hey Zig, You’re not a parent, and won’t be one for at least 3 years (until then you’re a baby sitter). Let me explain something to you that might help you in that part of your life:” If I were to object to any direction you gave, would you be offended? Let me tell you what, LOSER, raising kids is not about having clean clothes ready. Nor is it about being “family’s treasurer, budgeter, shopper, landscaper, electrician, plumber, auto mechanic, home work checker, football coach, baseball coach, soccer coach, music teacher, bicycle fixer, doctor, conceal and carry permit holder, head diciplinarian, judge, and jury.” Being a Parent is about listening to your children, letting them know they are loved, important and perfect! Maybe you like to be all things to your children. But, you need to be in order to justify your existance and so you don’t have to go into the real world and find a JOB!

    NCD also writes, “A person that stays at home with 4 children can’t be lazy. We are in the world every day. My job as a stay home dad is more challenging than any I’ve ever had, and it is the most rewarding I’ll ever have. I do more in one day than you do in a year.” Now, you don’t believe this, do you? It may be the “more challenging” and “most rewarding” job you have ever had, but that’s because, to his point in your life, you have been a SLUG. I am saying childrearing isn’t an important JOB. It is a very important “LIFESTYLE CHOICE!” It is not a JOB. A job is something one does to suppport a family financially. You can argue all you want that stay-at-home parenting is a job, but that would be a liberal argument. You are not going to do that! You are not in the real world every day. If you were, you would realize that your Tyranny, Government conspiracy ideas are literally CRAZY!

    NCD, from what books are you reading 100 pages? Because, I find it hard to believe that anyone with grammar as bad as your is reading anything other than 100 pages of the comics!

  16. NeoConDon says:

    If I were a betting man, I’d put Zig in the office of a divorce lawyer by the time his child is 4.

  17. Zig says:

    What’s the matter, NCD? The truth hurts? You have to attack my marriage, because you can’t argue the facts with me… I only used what YOU wrote to bury you, Asshole! My marriage is STRONG!

    You amaze me at how you make a childish and pithy comment and expect no one to argue back. NCD is an authority at exactly NOTHING. NCD, on what do you base your previous post? Do you base your post on your own experience in your marriage? Or, do you feel that your college Psychology major gives you the skill to make such bold pronouncements? Get a life, LOSER!

  18. NeoConDon says:

    Zig,
    I don’t have to debate with you on this Zig, you’re clueless. I’ve been married for 12 years and I have 4 children. If you really believe the nonsense you’re typing, you should really start looking for a divorce attorney.

  19. Wow, after reading all this I forgot what the post was even about. It’s quite obvious that both Zig and NCD have some anger issues. Picking on each other, calling each other names, are you two children because I initially thought you were grown men. Zig is looking for a good argument from NCD and that is fine, but you both could use a lesson on respect and how to talk to people. It doesn’t matter if you think someones opinion is stupid, I do all the time believe me, but why not agree to respectfully disagree and state your own opinion opposed to calling him an idiot Zig?

    Also, in that Zig called home schooled kids “losers” I am curious as to how many people you personally know that have been home schooled because I have never met a home schooled person that was even remotely close to being a “loser”. I personally know approximately 7 home schooled children and they’re all extremely intelligent. Two of them just recently graduated high school at 16. They are bright, well adjusted, socially functional young ladies. Lovely girls as are the rest of the kids who are younger.

    I think it was wrong for the judge to do what he did. He obviously wasn’t looking at the “big” picture which I suppose sadly is not surprising due to the high volume of cases.

    As far as bringing religion into the school I am 100% against it.

    I believe in God. I am not religious, however I am a very spiritual person.

  20. NeoConDon says:

    Zig and I are just carrying on, Christina.

    I sort of agree with you on bringing religion into schools. First, a teacher should not take a stand on it. Meaning a teacher that tells a student that there is no such thing as God is just as inappropriate as a teacher saying there is a God.

    From an intellectual and learning standpoint, discussing intelligent design is certainly appropriate because it will get a thoughtful discussion about the origin of life, which no one has been able to tackle yet.

    Discussing the different religions and religious cultures of the world is appropriate, as well as discussing religion as the basis of the founding of the Americas, and the motive of the Pilgrims.

    Obviously, you can’t discuss the First Amendment without discussing the right to practice, as well as congress’ inability to establish or infringe on the practice of religion.

    Certainly, if a student wishes to read the Bible, Koran, Torah, etc during study hall, he certainly should not be prevented from doing so.

    Athletes that wish to kneel in prayer before a football game is appropriate, as well as observing moments of silence for lost parents, students, or teachers.

    Other than that, having the public schools teaching religion would be wrong…likely becuase they’d manage to screw that up too…LOL.

    If a parent wants their children taught the doctrine of their religion, they can send them to religious schools. All of the major religions have them in the U.S.

  21. Tristan says:

    “Were you home schooled, because you don’t really know much about punctuation?”

    This is a great example of incorrect punctuation. It also makes little sense to preach proper parenting without any experience on the matter.

    As for home schooling, again, anyone with no experience in the matter has very little to offer. Suggesting that a different experience is negative precisely because it is different is nothing short of ignorant. Judging by the state of our society, I would suggest that we shouldn’t criticize much of anyone for much of anything until we take a good look at ourselves.

    I’m one of those fools who sacrificed “the college experience” to avoid graduating with a debt exceeding 200% of my starting salary. No doubt I missed out on scores of hangovers, sexual partners, and trips to the laundromat. My point is that there are positives and negatives for any path we choose in life and making sweeping generalizations about these sorts of choices does more harm than good. Parents should be allowed to make the choices with regard to their children. The children can overcome a sheltered childhood in the future should they choose to do so, be it from science or otherwise.

    I don’t understand why freedom is deemed to be such a dangerous thing.

  22. Zig says:

    Christina–What is this, “Christina Bledsoe Says:

    March 20th, 2009 at 7:23 pm
    Wow, after reading all this I forgot what the post was even about. It’s quite obvious that both Zig and NCD have some anger issues. Picking on each other, calling each other names, are you two children because I initially thought you were grown men. Zig is looking for a good argument from NCD and that is fine, but you both could use a lesson on respect and how to talk to people. It doesn’t matter if you think someones opinion is stupid, I do all the time believe me, but why not agree to respectfully disagree and state your own opinion opposed to calling him an idiot Zig?”

    You should have stopped with, “Zig is looking for a good argument from NCD and that is fine,” but you had to type that Don and I were, “Picking on each other, calling each other names, are you two children because I initially thought you were grown men.”

    Now, who is name calling? If you meant to wake me up, you have done so! I don’t know you. However, for better or worse, I do know NCD… We have been “friends” for about 10 years and have always had a contrarian relationship. Plus, this site is called theconstantcomplainer.com. I don’t come to the site to learn manners. I come to the site to sharpen my critical thinking skills, to let off steam and to COMPLAIN! Neither of us fights fair and I like to win!

  23. Zig says:

    NCD, FU!

  24. Zig says:

    And I do know a christain conservative family that homeschooled all their children, through 8th grade. This is similar to what I feel NCD is trying to espouse, as he is a holy roller! I feel that each of the christian conservative “homeschooled” children are beginning their young adult life behind the 8 ball, as social retards. Homeschooled kids do not have the same social graces as kids who are educated in the traditional setting! Homeschooled kids are not tought patience and, therefore, cannot deal with other students as well, in my opinion! Home schooled kids have constant personal attention and are not tought the social grace and are in constant need to immediate gratification!

    Also my cousin is considering HOMESCHOOLING her 3 litle boys, becaue they get “Picked on” by other students. Now, my cousin’s son is very electic. My cousin is also a religious zealot.

    Typically, chilren with learning disabilities are homeschooled. This is because their parents feel constant attention is what is needed to help their children learn. Nothing could be further form the truth… I feel the real value in public schooling is the social lessons that students learn from being with peers in the PUBLIC (or PRIVATE) school environment! How much of your grade school or highschool education does one use in their daily life? The goal of a PUBLIC education system is to SOCIALIZE!

  25. NeoConDon says:

    Zig,
    You are correct in the sense that there are different types of social attributes among home schooled children, private/religious schooled children, and public school children. But your premise that the public school children have better social qualities is way off base.

    Perhpas you prefer the social lessons in public school, but I do not. That’s why I send my kids to school at our Catholic Church.

    I have found the opposite of what you’ve found to be true regarding home school children and public school children.

    Finally, the goal of public education is not to socialize, it is to teach reading, writing, math, history, science, and the arts. Clearly you have been failed by the public schools. It looks like you had teachers that were overtaken by the Communist Goals of 1963. I certainly don’t want the gov’t teaching my children social skills because in my opinion, you can’t properly teach socializtion without moral standards. The basis of those moral standards have been unconstitutionally removed from the public schools. That is why our schools are failing.

  26. Tristan says:

    I agree, I have no idea how the goal of public education is for kids to socialize. That is at best a minor benefit or by-product of the environment. If that was the purpose, I couldn’t count the ways my high school has failed society.

    That being said, I do believe that the adversity that exists in public schools is very valuable. The greater the negativity you experience and overcome, the greater the benefit in the future. It’s best to get that naive optimism out of the way early, and public school gets it done better than any other.

  27. NeoConDon says:

    The growing lack of adversity is one of the huge problems I have with the schools today…not just public. Kids are rewarded for showing up, regardless of effort or results. When I was a kid and we had field day, ribbons were given for win, place, and show. Today, every kid gets a blue ribbon. Teachers grade in purple becuase it’s less harsh or intimidating than red…absurdity.

    But, at the public schools, there is usually a large spectrum of races and classes, unlike many of the private schools. It gives the children opprotunities to learn to interact with people that have different backgrounds and experiences than they do. The unfortunate side of that equation is the stupid multi-cultural lessons that the public schools try to indoctrinate the children with. It’s counter-productive and racist…typical liberalism.

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  29. The Mother says:

    I have homeschooled, for at least part of my children’s education. I did it because the schools at the elementary and junior high level simply weren’t prepared to deal with my GIFTED children.They hit high school far more advanced than their peers.

    None-the-less, when people around our neck of the woods found out I was homeschooling, they usually assumed that it was for religious reasons, as it usually is.

    I do take a small issue with the idea that there are only two areas in which religion has quarrels with science. Evolutionary theory is PERVASIVE in biology, physiology and biochemistry. It is the backbone of the natural sciences. Similarly, the age of the earth is absolutely essential to geology and geophysics. And the big-bang theory is pivotal in our understanding of cosmology.

    One simply can’t leave these tidbits out and come to any real, integrative understanding of science.

    NB: the scientist who first proposed the Big-Bang theory was a Catholic priest. Just FYI.

  30. NeoConDon says:

    That’s a great blog you have Mother, and you make some excellent points here, although I think you’re way off.

    I don’t know a single catholic that doesn’t know that the idea of the bang was first proposed by a catholic priest, but it was after some of Einstein’s ideas and it supported the Judeao-Christian belief of the Genesis. Don’t forget, the idea of a big bang were written in The Bible too. The phrase Big Bang was later coined by Sir Fred Hoyle (an atheist) and is used by modern science to try to disprove the existence of God, something they have failed miserably to do. Ironically, it was Hoyle that mathematically proved the impossibility of Darwin’s theory of evolution, and that idea of impossibiltiy was later supported by Francis Crick, Nobel Prize winner and credited with the co-discovery of DNA (the final nail in the coffin of darwinism) Add that to the fact that there is not a single shred of physical evidence to support Darwin’s lame brained idea, and we are forced to question these “truths” we’re teaching our children.

    “Science” operates under more assumptions and leaps of faith than most religions. The Genesis cannot be disproved, while Darwin’s theory has been disproved, and then re-defined yet we are still teaching darwin as fact.

    While evolutionary theory might be pervasive in science, it is not necessary because it (darwinism) has either been re-defined from darwin’s theory so it can fit into the discussion, or it must be assumed to be true and therefore takes on a leap of faith that goes beyond most religious beliefs.

    For me, my religious beliefs cannot be disproven, and the religious beliefs known as Darwinism can and have been, so I look at science with a far greater reaching and open mind compared to the modern day darwinian philosopher. They are simply forced to close their logical minds and assume a bad theory because it wouldn’t be “scientific” to admit the possibility that you can’t get “something from nothing”…at least without a little help. Simply put, I would compare someone that believes in Darwinism to the person that believes the story of Jonah…

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