The War on Christmas – Guest Post
December 8, 2008 by The Constant Complainer
Welcome to The Constant Complainer – voted “Best Local Blog” in a “Best of Cleveland 2008” readers’ poll.
Here at The Constant Complainer, in addition to my posts, readers can submit Guest Posts on topics they would like to complain about. Neo Con Don submitted the below-Guest Post. His complaint is people trying to be politically correct when it comes to freedom of religion. It’s an interesting perspective that I’m sure will attract your feedback. So without further adieu, here’s Don.
I AM SICK AND TIRED of the stupid liberal political correctness that is taking place across America. (For the idiots out there, America is synonymous with the United States regardless of what your stupid social studies teacher told you.) It extends from hate filled freaks in California breaking into peaceful religious celebrations (called church) to the ignorant and apologetic people that are trying so hard not to offend someone that probably wouldn’t get offended anyway. Here’s where I stand…if you don’t like religion… too bad.
1. I believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God and has died for my sins.
2. I do not believe that Muhammad was a prophet, but if you do, that’s cool.
3. If you’re Jewish, I think you are half-right and you think I’m half-wrong. I can live with that.
4. I also don’t care what religion you celebrate…just as long as you don’t kill me on behalf of your god, or try to convert me…I can’t be converted.
Also:
1. I am not offended by any of the other religions.
2. I am not offended by a Menorah.
3. I am not offended when I see a Muslim praying or wearing their headdress. Our Constitution guarantees those freedoms and their religion requires it.
The reason I live in America is because I have the freedom to practice my religion and they have the freedom to practice theirs. We need to recognize our differences and celebrate our similarities; our desire to practice our religion freely. But something is getting very strange. The liberals who call themselves tolerant are anything but tolerant. In their quest to not offend anyone, or support a specific religion, they are violating our first amendment rights by establishing a national religion: Atheism.
Here’s a list of examples and how it is directed specifically at Christianity:
1. Christmas Break is now Winter Break.
2. Easter Break is now Spring Break.
3. Instead of Silent Night, Holy Night, they sing Silent Night, Winter Night.
4. Christmas Trees have become Holiday Trees.
5. Public squares are void of any recognition of the holidays they are celebrating.
6. BC (Before Christ) has become BCE (Before Common Era)
7. AD (in the year of our Lord) has become CE (Common Era.)
8. 10 Commandments are being removed from courthouses and justice centers across our country.
9. The new Capital Visitor Center in Washington DC is void of our nation’s religious history.
In social studies classes, our public schools teach a lie called “the separation of church and state.” *News Flash* The Separation of Church and State does not exist. Our Founders made that very clear. Our Constitution also makes that clear: “Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof;” It can not be any clearer. Refusing or requiring any display of any religion in any public or private place is unconstitutional. Public space belongs to WE THE PEOPLE, and if we choose to celebrate Christmas, Chanukah, or Ramadan, we may do it. The only people getting any satisfaction are the Atheists because they’re the only ones that are given the opportunity by the gov’t to celebrate their religion. Real religion celebrates Peace on Earth and Good Will toward all of mankind. In Washington State, an atheist group that spreads the message “freedom from religion” has been granted a display area next to a Nativity Scene in the State Capital. It reads:
“At this season of the Winter Solstice may reason prevail. There are no gods, no devils, no angels, no heaven or hell. There is only our natural world. Religion is but myth and superstition that hardens hearts and enslaves minds.”
The approval of this hate filled placard is legally problematic. First, it violates the Establishment Clause of the First Amendment. This is the gov’t establishing Atheism as a religion. Second, while the Menorah and the Nativity are symbols of the religions they represent, the placard placed by the “Freedom from Religion” group attacks the other religions that are represented. The Menorah and the Nativity are not offensive symbols, the Atheist plaque is offensive. Perhaps the atheists should develop some symbols of their own. Otherwise, I suggest the Christians simply make a plaque of the written Nativity Story out of the Gospel According to Luke. At least each group would be on similar ground.
The right to practice our religion is the first fundamental right we have as Americans. It was established before any other right. It is the reason for the establishment of our Nation, and the only right that will guarantee our nation’s future existence. It has nothing to do with the specific religion we practice. It’s okay to be an atheist. Just don’t force it on us, and respect what the Constitution really stands for. Unless the people of America’s religions ban together to fight the anti-religious zealots, we will find our country over run by a bunch of hate filled liberals embedding fascism in every aspect of our lives.
Comments
Leave a Reply
You must be logged in to post a comment.
Ok Don, I agree with you in that there should be none of this political correctness BS. If you want to say Merry Christmas or Christmas tree, then by all means go for it. I think that’s all BS too. But for different reasons. I don’t blame liberals for every single thing I don’t agree with. I also think you’re being hypocritical. Why is it that Christians can put up displays showing their beliefs, but atheists cannot? First off though, I think it’s stupid for atheists to put up any kind of display, considering it’s pointless to them. They don’t believe, so be it. It’s just dumb to put up a display saying that they believe in nothing. However, I think they should be able to put one up if they choose. What you find offensive isn’t offensive to them, likewise they may find Church displays and signs offensive. Like when you drive by a church and there’s a message about God on their sign. That’s all good, but if they don’t believe any of that, they’ll probably think it’s ridiculous.
You’re of a different mindset that a lot of Christians. You don’t care about other people’s religion or lack thereof. That’s great. However, there’s a lot of Christians (and other religious sects) that try and convert those they think need saved. That’s what bothers me. What business is it of theirs? Every time I go to an Ozzy Osbourne concert or Marilyn Manson, there’s some religious zealot standing outside bible thumping every person who walks by. Why is it that they think we must all be atheists who need saved because of the music we listen to? BS. What I’m trying to say is that Christians are not tolerant of anything different, and it’s usually the Conservatives who do the bible thumping, not the liberals.
If you want a case of “Mind your own stinkin’ business”, try preaching that to the bible thumping conservatives. You’re trying to claim that atheists are trying to force their non-belief on you, but Christians are trying to do the same to them. They have a strong history of doing such things…just look at the Crusades. Most atheists could care less what religious people have to say and will only speak up in self-defense.
The examples you’ve given come from atheist extremists. They’re idiots, and so are religious extremists. That’s why I always say that nothing good comes from being extreme about anything. There’s no problem with any religion, or being atheist. But it’s when you’re a freak about it that it becomes a problem.
But let’s just blame it all on the liberals Don, whatever helps you sleep at night. You’re such a hypocrite and you don’t even see it.
I understand where you’re coming from Mike. There is nothing more irritating than being evangelized. The unfortunate reality is those kooks have as much of a right to be at an Ozzy show as the atheists have to be at a Michael W. Smith show. In both cases however, they’re not on stage trying to shout over the performer.
But my point was something that you never responded to. I never said the atheists are trying to force their non-belief on me. The liberals in gov’t are trying to do that. This rant was about the relationship between religion and country. The specific religion is unimportant. Since the 1940’s, we’ve gone from having “Freedom of Religion” to “Freedom from Religion.” All of that was taught with liberal lies and the US Dept. of Education was the vehicle.
In the specific case in Washington State, the Atheists claim to not be a religion. Therefore, their display does not belong next to the Nativity because the Nativity is a religious display. You don’t see Christians putting up displays against Islam during their Holy Days. Would they be allowed to do that if they tried?
All of this falls directly in line with the Communist Goals of 1963, number 17, 27, 28, and 29. Here’s the link:
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/965685/posts
I agree there are radicals on all sides of this argument, but that number is very small in relation to the overwhelming percentage of Americans that aren’t radicals. The Crusades are not relevant here since they occurred during the Medieval period. Most of those people were probably going psychotic because of the global warming that was occuring. I understand they had some phat SUV’s though.
My biggest concern is that our schools are not teaching the real religious history of our Nation, and it is allowing the liberals in gov’t to do these things. I would be just as upset if that atheist hate speech was next to the Menorah.
The role of the gov’t in a case like this is to make sure that everyone gets an equal say in our public square, and to prevent hate speech and vandalism. If the atheists want to be a part of the show, they should declare themselves a religion and develop symbols that can respectively sit next to the other religious displays, or stand in front of the building and protest like the First Amendment guarantees they have a right to do. But the second the gov’t removes all religious displays from the public square, or allows one to degrade another, is the second the gov’t violates the First Amendment.
I see your point, NeoConDon, and I do agree that we as a nation are too quickly offended, too litigious and too argumentative.
As a Christian, I believe I have the right to state my beliefs, but I don’t believe that I have the right to impose them. And I believe that we should be respectful of others. That’s my biggest beef with the atheist sign. It’s not offering equal opportunity to other religious views (as a menorah would), but MOCKING the other religion by becoming part of the display. It’s an antagonistic, in your face sign that belittles the religion of others. It smacks of duplicity when atheists force their views on the very people they accuse of angry proselytizing.
Atheists contend that atheism is not a religion, but a point of view. Following this logic, one would have to allow a swastika or other hateful symbol to appear next to the religious displays as our government allows all points of view under freedom of speech.
I have absolutely no problem with anything you just said, except the part about schools teaching religious history. I have no problem with schools actually teaching the historical facts of how religions developed and came about, but anything else is for Sunday school. And in that respect, there isn’t a whole lot of historical significance to religion in our country. We’ve only been around for such a short time comparatively, and most of the historical religious significance happened in Europe pre-America.
That’s one of the reasons I love European history so much. You learn how religions were formed over time and how religious thinking has really evolved. When teaching American history, the only historical religion significance to talk about is the Puritans leaving Europe to escape pursecution for their beliefs, and the pagan Indians. But what else has America done for religious history worthy of being taught in school?
The schools have an obligation to teach several things regarding religion and their relation to history.
1. I can think of 5 major religions still in practice, and each should be explained in detail so students can understand the culture and the political significance of each religion and how they relate to history. An example is this: The rise and fall of the Roman Empire cannot be taught unless the specifics of Paganism, Judaism, Christianity, and Islam is explained in detail. Additionally, the rise and fall of the Roman Empire can be paralleled to the existing theories of the rise and future fall of the United States.
2. When you study nations, you must study their religion whether it’s Greece, Western Europe, Easter Europe, the Middle East, etc. History is the study of religion.
3. The most important aspect of The United States and its Constitution is religion. The freedom of religion is the first right guaranteed to its citizens. It is the reason for our founding, and every single right that is listed after is subordinate and less important than the freedom of religion. We are not teaching our children that the founders believed that power first exists with God, then it is passed on to WE THE PEOPLE, and then loaned to our elected officials.
Religion is at the center of the purpose of our founding, our Constitution, Manifest Destiny, and the spread of democracy throughout the world. But for some reason, the libs are too afraid to teach these facts. Why? Because libs want Americans to think that gov’t holds the power and the solutions to our problems. They’ve been successful in teaching these lies under the “seperation of church and state” theory. As soon as a person understands the premise of our founding, the purpose of gov’t is limited. When you remove the premise, the purpose of gov’t can be expanded.
OK, Idiot! I have to say that I didn’t read the other comments, after Don’s post. I hope I don’t repeat anything they said.
There you go again, Don. Your perceptions of what our country’s leaders are doing..is your own! I have no idea how you interpret what they are doing as establishing an official religion. I believe what the founders said was that no OFFICIAL “STATE” RELIGION could be established. But, you can twist words any way you want. It still doesn’t make you any more correct.
You said, “The liberals who call themselves tolerant are anything but tolerant. In their quest to not offend anyone, or support a specific religion, they are violating our first amendment rights by establishing a national religion: Atheism.” What you fail to recognize is that the big bad liberals neither condemned or established ATHEISM as a religion. They wouldn’t because we have freedom of religion in the United States of America… They are only allowing the “FREE EXCERCISE THEREOF!”
Again, you misinterpreted the Constitution when you said, “In social studies classes, our public schools teach a lie called “the separation of church and state.” *News Flash* The Separation of Church and State does not exist. Our Founders made that very clear. Our Constitution also makes that clear: “Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof;” It can not be any clearer.
If you would read the previous paragraph with a sensable and critical mind, you could see that the Libs are just allowing the FREE EXCERCISE of Atheism. I am glad that you have found religion in your hedonistic, glutonous life. However, when you corrupt and change what is written to use it to support one ideology over another, you are clearly misunderstanding the true beauty and value of religion.
Islam was and is a beauitful religion…until terrorists changed and corrupted the meaning of what was written to support their own zealous ideology! Kind of makes you go HHMMMMMM?
Also, it is the Repunklican poloticians who mostly wear religion as a shield. I am not saying libs don’t also use the dispicable stradegy of hiding under the shield of religosity. But, I don’t see any of the HOLY ROLLER, BORN AGAIN Christians, like yourself, vocalizing support for Seperation of Chuch and State when it doesn’t fit into their adgenda!
I absolutely hate the “Founding fathers” argument. It’s not the same era and a country has to change with the times or else it is doomed to fail. You have to adapt with new ideas. Why else would our founding fathers allow for ammendments to the Constitution? If you go with your “Founding fathers” argmument, then why do we not have slavery still? Why are women and African Americans allowed to vote? Why are duels illegal? It’s because things change. The importance of religion in our government has changed. I strongly believe that there does not need to be a combination of church and state any longer. Give me an atheist President if he/she is the best candidate for the job. It doesn’t matter to me. I believe in God, but I do not think people who don’t are bad people.
Again, Don, you are a zealot! Do you write these things just to hear yourself talk? Or do you really believe what you write, because this RANT is so filled with errors and misinformation…YOU need to get out of ther house more. And find a little adult conversation. And, the voices in your head don’t qualify!
The role of the gov’t in a case like this is to make sure that everyone gets an equal say in our public square, and to prevent hate speech and vandalism. If the atheists want to be a part of the show, they should declare themselves a religion and develop symbols that can respectively sit next to the other religious displays, or stand in front of the building and protest like the First Amendment guarantees they have a right to do. But the second the gov’t removes all religious displays from the public square, or allows one to degrade another, is the second the gov’t violates the First Amendment.
If “THOSE DARN AETHEISTS” don’t want to be an official religion, their placard is protected unde FREEDOM OF SPEECH, therefore, they can display whatever they want, whenever they want! And, because my placard disagreed with yours, doesn’t make either more correct! YOU are attaching way too much significance to the fact that both displays sit on public square.
Zig, you need to read everything first, then respond. Also, try reading books…like history books…maybe The Federalist Papers, and the Letters of our Founders. It’s funny how much information you can learn regarding their intentions.
Mike,
The founders intentions are the most important aspect of this argument. While it may be a long time ago, it doesn’t change the fact that premise of the founding of our country is based on the freedom of religion whether we like it or not. It can be argued that the decline of Europe is caused by their secular ideas. Every year, millions of people immigrate to the U.S. to freely practice their religion, attain wealth, and achieve the American dream. Changing that premise will destroy the future of our country.
Like you, I do not think that people that do not believe in God (or a different God) are bad people…unless they do bad things. But I don’t think I would vote for an atheist for President….unless he’s a conservative that is on the “right” side of the issues. I just don’t know how many fiscal, political, and social conservatives are atheists.
Don,
You’re right about there not being a whole lot of atheist politicians. There might be closet atheists, but certainly they would have no chance of being elected President. Not today anyway. Remember, it took an awful long time to elect a Catholic. I believe Kennedy was the first one.
Right. Both President Kennedy and Clinton were/are Catholic. Please don’t hold that against Catholics though…
Let’s avoid a gigantic relgious discusion here, shall we, fellows. I think the writer is misinformed and is quick to blame everything on the liberals. That’s where I lost interest. Good rebuttals and discussion though. I’ll make sure to visit back.
Lol, I happen to think they’re two of our best Presidents. But I’d rather not get into that argument because I know we seriously disagree. For the sake of Christmas, I’ll leave it at that haha.
I can’t just leave it there, I don’t care what holiday we’re celebrating…Let’s see…Bill Clinton was impeached for lying under oath to a grand jury. I certainly wouldn’t put him in the category of one of our best presidents. I’d agree that he was better than Carter…
Kennedy…He had more failures in his brief time as President than George W. Bush would have if he served 6 terms. Let’s just look at two of them.
1. Bay of Pigs was a disaster and an embarrassment that showed his ineptitude.
2. He turned his back on the German people when he let his communist friends in the Soviet Union build the Berlin Wall. A wall that divided a city and countless families for decades. Then consider that the soviets murdered anyone that tried to escape the luxury of communism. It was quite possibly the most disgusting moment in the history of the American Presidency.
Bill Clinton was lucky he had Gingrich controlling the House and writing all of his legislation. Kennedy was simply a failed presidency when you look at his results.
Now, to top it all off, this nut job of a Governor is going to allow a “Festivus” display too. For those of you not familiar with Seinfeld, this was a holdiday created by one of the characters on the show because he felt slighted during the holdidays…he called it “Festivus for the Restivus”
Click the link below to view the history of this fake holiday.
http://numberonecellar.blogspot.com/2005/12/festivus-for-restivus.html
Look here Lee Harvey, Kennedy avoided a nuclear war during the Cuban missle crisis. Bush would have stumbled into a full blown nuclear disaster. (and that’s not pronounced nucular FYI). I hope you also realize that POTUS has absolutely no control over what other countries (ie; Germany and Russia) do. We can have all the diplomacy we want, but in the end the wall was built anyway. Show me one President that could have prevented the building of the Berlin wall? Your hatred towards liberals has skewed your judgment on everything, and it amazes me you haven’t ticked off the wrong person yet.
Yes, Bill Clinton was impeached, but never convicted. We all know he was guilty as hell, but at least he was smart enough to talk his way out of it. Do you think GWB could have done that? I think not. And if you paid attention to anything real around the world, you’d know that the rest of the world doesn’t care about what he did or didn’t do sexually, they just care that his eight years as President were far better than GWB’s.
Like I said, two of our best Presidents. All you can come up with is Bay of Pigs, the Berlin Wall, and Lewinsky…sorry, try again.
I’ll throw another log on the fire. FDR was an even better President than Kennedy and Clinton.
Lincoln was also a great President, but you probably hate him for freeing the slaves. God forbid the government try to change the Constitution against the founding fathers intentions.
You have been badly taught.
Bay of Pigs, Berlin Wall, and Cuban Missle Crisis were diplomatic and political disasters for Kennedy. He was in bed with the communists and he was a terrible president. He was also a piece of crap when it came to his character.
Clinton had Newt to help him through. He was also accused to have sexually assulted a number of women and was impeached for lying to a grand jury. That is not the type of character we need in a president.
GWB never would have allowed any of those things to happen. Reagan would have sent soldiers from our German bases to start killing the soviets as they were building the wall. Liberals thought that appeasment was the best policy, and it proved to be the worst policy. Reagan proved that. Carter, Bush 41, and Clinton thought that appeasement was the best policy for terrorists, GWB proved that appeasment was not the best policy for fighting terrorism.
FDR was a great war time president, but nothing else. He turned a normal recession into the GREAT DEPRESSION. The New Deal not only extened the length of the great depression by several years, but has proven to be a disaster to this day.
I don’t know who taught you about Lincoln and the Constitution, but they should be fired. The founders wanted to end slavery, but they knew they couldn’t and win the Revolution. That’s why the constitution used language that would force the argument to occur after the union got on its feet…that took 76 years. Lincoln was the founder of the Republican Party and believed in limited and un-intrusive government.
I really hope every single one of Obama’s liberal threats come true for the morons that voted for him. You want to talk about slavery…liberalism turns citizens into slaves to the gov’t.
I should have stopped reading when you said Kennedy was a peice of crap when it came to his character. Is that how you treat war heroes? At least I acknowledged McCain’s service and respect him for it. I don’t think you know anything about character.
As for Reagan preventing the Berlin Wall, I don’t think so. He would have still been trying to figure out how to arm the Cubans to overthrow Castro…
If Lincoln were running for President today, he’d be running on the Democrat ticket. If you knew anything, you’d know that the Republican party in his time is the Democrat party today.
I think the last time I heard so much BS from a liberal is when Obama gave his last speech. Kennedy was a terrible president of poor character. There are a lot of veterans that are of poor character. Reagan discussed what he would have done to the soviets when the wall went up, and it would have involved dead soviet soldiers and bombs. Lincoln would be disgusted by both parties today. He would likely be a Libertarian, or would create a new conservative party. There’s no way he’d be a member of the socialist Democrat party of Obama. Every day he’s proving to be more and more socialistic…socialism is evil.
Well it’s better to hear BS from a liberal occasionally than to hear the load of BS that’s constantly being typed by you (a conservative kook).
I prefer “Right Wing Nut Job.” Conservatives cannot be “Kooks” as that label is designated for the liberal morons and liberal fascists embedded in our federal gov’t and media.
I am astounded that someone could graduate high school and think that Lincoln would be a member of today’s socialist party. There are current Democrats in the Senate that are former members of the KKK. Lincoln was a conservative that believed in American Exceptionalism and limited government. There is not a single liberal Democrat that stands for either of those principles.
Calm down…Don, I know you too well to think you believe all the crap you are spewing! You are just trying to make the world fit in to your own reality. But, I recognize the lies told to the American people! I know GWB told lies to try to find a legacy and searched for a legacy in his final 4 years. He was actually searching to differentiate himself from his father. For 4 years he hid under the vail of trying to end terrorism, with a “War on Terrorism.” When after the first 4 years he had nothing, the war on trerror fell in his lap. (So he grabbed it and made it into a war on Sadam Huessain…) Terrortism cannot be beaten. It is an ideology, (an ideology with which Sadam did not align himself). It is not another party which can be physically defeated! But, you wouldn’t understand. You are a Catholic convert, lamb, and you are told the Communion wine is magically converted into the blood of God. You are tought to accept events on Faith!
Kennedy and Clinton may have engaged in moral failures. But, both Reagan and GWB engaged in capital failures, of heroic proportions, when they sent young, impressionable men/soldiers into harms way to defend lies. Where is the morality in that?
Give me a man who wants to get his groove-on, over a killer, anyday.
Conservatives are the biggest KOOKs! Don, you are the best example of being a KOOK. How often do you take a bath? How often do you leave the house and communicate with other adults, adults with different opinions from your own? Hearing different people’s ideas of how the world works fosters learning and therefore, growth. From your back asswards sentiments, I can easily recognize that between wipeing your little ones’ ass and feeding them you don’t really get out of your house much to test you political beliefs. Don, you need to get out more. America has finally fulfilled it’s promise of anyone can be anything. We elected a Black man, who is a product of a single mother home, President. I recognize that you are still living in Leave it to Beaverville/Conserva(Stupid)ity, but you need to stick your head out of your hole and see all the joy around you.
As Sam Elliot said in the movie “Tombstone” – let’s take it easy boys. Good discussions though! I have to admit, Neo Con Don has some unique (and strong) opinions, but his complaints do generate some good exchanges. Rebuttal Guest Posts are always welcome. Thanks…
I hope NCD doesn’t bother responding to Zig. Zig is without a doubt the reason birth control exists.
[…] theconstantcomplainer.com » Blog Archive » The War on Christmas … If Lincoln were running for President today, he’d be running on the Democrat ticket. If you knew anything, you’d know that the Republican party in his time is the Democrat party today. NeoConDon Says: December 10th, 2008 at 11:50 am … […]
[…] theconstantcomplainer.com » Blog Archive » The War on Christmas … Yes, Bill Clinton was impeached, but never convicted. We all know he was guilty as hell, but at least he was smart enough to talk his way out of it. Do you think GWB could have done that? I think not. And if you paid attention to … […]
I could say that Don is the reason I’m pro-choice, but I feel that’s going to far. And despite the arguing, I don’t mind him.
Mike,
There’s a big difference between birth control and murdering unborn children.
You’re right there is, but using either of them to get the point across that you wish someone hadn’t been born is the same thing. I realize it’s a joke, but the point is the same.
[…] theconstantcomplainer.com » Blog Archive » The War on Christmas … That’s why the constitution used language that would force the argument to occur after the union got on its feet…that took 76 years. Lincoln was the founder of the Republican Party and believed in limited and un-intrusive government. … […]
The point is the same????
tell that to murdered baby….
Wow I didn’t know you were so ignorant to not realize a simple comparison. Let me explain it to you. Saying that someone is the reason birth control exists is like saying that they shouldn’t have been born. Saying that someone is the reason abortion exists is like saying that they shouldn’t have been born. It’s the same end-point in which you’re puting him down. I happen to not think either example is funny.
And just so we’re clear, being pro-choice doesn’t mean I support abortion. I happen to be completely against abortion…but that’s me. I can’t make that decision for my neighbor. You wouldn’t understand that being the right wing nut job.
Otis can’t get laid!
Otis would rather have millions of little unwanted and unloved kids running around starving and suffering from no love and no attention than have a trained professional doctor perform one “BABY KILLING”/Abortion! Abortion is so far out of the conversation. What if I told your wife she had to get an abortion? How would that float with Mrs. Otis? What if I told her she had to give birth and the systematically watch him or her sufficate, from lack of oxygen?
Like Mike, I am not por-abortion. But, the minute someone from outside my family tries to make decisions for my family, I have a problem! So, Otis, go back to practicing “yourown” Birth Control on Yourself and leave the rest of the world alone.
I don’t think your neighbor should have the choice to murder an unborn baby.
Thanks for defending a baby’s right to not be murdered Otis. Mike and I have let this get way too far of the topic.
Does anyone know anything about this Festivus display in Seattle? What an insult.
Yeah we have derailed this topic. Is there really a Festivus display in Seattle? If so, I think it’s funny. You probably weren’t a fan of the liberal show Seinfield though.
“Festivus for the rest of us”.
I love Seinfeld…it’s a great show. I loved that episode, but Festivus is a fake holiday being put up on the same stage as Christmas. It’s not funny, it’s ridiculous.
Aren’t most holidays fake? Name a couple “Real” holidays that haven’t had their meanings completely altered or forgotten.
The big 3 religions and their holy days are real. They are recognized by the United States Gov’t and employers must recognize them. Festivus is a fake holiday.
So because a government doesn’t recognize a holiday it’s not real? The holidays you’re talking about that are real, weren’t always “real” by your definition of being recognized by our government. They started out as a religious holiday and were eventually recognized as national holidays by our government. Why can’t a new holiday form and perhaps one day be recognized by our government? Maybe one day Festivus will be recognized as a national holiday, probably not, but that doesn’t mean it can’t happen.
Just look at Scientology. Most normal people don’t really believe it’s a religion to be taken seriously, but it was formed by Hubbard, caught some attention, and eventually became a world-wide religion.
I may not agree with Festivus or the Scientology religion, in fact I think fake holidays are stupid, but I’m just saying that stranger things have happened.
Since our country has become a sit-com, I will not deny the possibiltiy of such bizarre things happening. However, it is absurd to put an atheist and festivus display next to a Nativity and Menorah.
—————————————————-
Pro-choice Zig Says:
***Like Mike, I am not pro-abortion. But, the minute someone from outside my family tries to make decisions for my family, I have a problem!***
So telling someone they should have the choice to murder unborn babies with my tax dollars is okay, but I don’t get the choice for a private vote on a union. Or to choose where my education tax dollars go for my child?
But it’s okay for the gov’t to force you into their healthcare program without a choice, or a union, or tell radio stations what topics they may or may not broadcast, or take your tax dollars and give it to poorly managed businesses, or what light bulbs you may and may not buy, or what temperature to set the thermostat in your house, etc, etc, etc…??? All of that’s okay, but God forbid someone is prevented from murdering an unborn baby.
Don, is it murder if the mother’s life is in danger due to the baby?
The government is not forcing anyone into any health care plan. If you like your current plan, you can keep it. There’s nothing that says you’re forced to take their healthcare program. That’s what’s irritating about right wing nut jobs…they just don’t listen to anyone or facts.
It is not forced heathcare yet….you can bet your bottom dollar that it will become a forced national healthcare plan that you are forced to buy into…like social security.
****Don, is it murder if the mother’s life is in danger due to the baby?****
…Yes it is still murder because the intent is to kill the baby, that just doesn’t go away regardless of the reason why.
Ok Don, in that sense, you have no idea how you’d feel if you had to make a decision like that…your wife, or your baby.
I hope you never have to make that decision. You’re going to give me some BS response that you’d let nature take it’s course. We’ve had the abortion discussion before and I’m not getting into it again. Spew whatever crap you want into a response, it doesn’t matter. You’re not a woman, neither am I, so neither of us has any knowledge of the issue anyway. PRO-CHOICE, not pro abortion.
There is not a single doctor that would ever turn to anyone and say “your wife or your baby,” so your premise is wrong.
But I do know how I would feel and how I would answer if it ever was suggested to me…I would never, under any circumstance, encourage, support, promote, or suggest that any woman ever has an abortion, ever. This is about right and wrong. It has nothing to do with the right of the mother, and it has everything to do with the right of the baby, and murdering them is wrong.
You can go try to mask it any way you want, but you are either for murdering unborn babies, or you are not. I can’t seem to find it anywhere where the constitution provides anyone the right to choose to murder unborn children. It does provide the right to life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness. Since human life begins at conception, ending that life is murder.
What? How does life begin at conception? That bundle of cells cannot stand on it’s own outside the womb… How is that life? I do think childbirth is a miracle though, as my wife and I are expecting our first child in March! I would be doing both myself and my soon-to-be-born baby a disservice if accepted all the propaganda.
I have never and I am not currently going to allow the Catholic Church, and a bunch of BOY loving priests, to tell me how to live my life…as Don has done. I am Catholic. Every good Cathlic is encouraged to make the Church a better place and to encourage converts… I am trying to make the church more open and more tolerant by expressing my concerns with the faith and the direction it is headed. I think my actions should, in the long run, increase the number of followers of the Catholic faith, which is what good Catholics are tought to endorse!
See, Don, you don’t need to accept everything you are told and tought without argument! Good Catholics are smart Catholics… The Church doesn’t need any more unquestioning, unthinking followers to serve during it’s battle to remain relevent. What they need are a bunch of free thinking followers willing to do what is needed to help the church stay relevent!
OH YEAH! And my family already celebrates FESTIVUS! WE have done so for the last 5 years!
Congratulations on the baby Zig. Keep him/her away from Don haha.
Zig is reproducing…God help us.
It just amazes me how these libs can be so spineless to say things like they’re not pro abortion, but they’re pro choice. I think NCD put it perfectly…you are either for murdering unborn babies, or you’re against it. Perfect.
You’re right Otis, we did get off the topic again. Here’s another example dealing with the hate toward conservative Christians.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/12/13/AR2008121302503_pf.html
This is the story about Gov. Palin’s church being burned down by Arson. No one is talking about it. If Obama’s church would be burned down, you can be certain that everyone in media would be covering it.
No one is talking about it??? Then why have I heard about it 5 times already? It is a dispicable act and should be rightfully punished. I don’t like Palin one bit, but this type of thing is horrible. If it truly was arson then it makes me sick. Don’t try and say that if it were Obama people would be all over it, because it’s being handled the same in both cases. It’s also a moot point because we’ll never know unless someone burns down J. Wright’s church. And in that case, I think a lot of people would actually be celebrating.
OH, and your saying that someone is either for murdering babies or is against it is completely wrong. It’s never that cut and dry. Maybe it is for you people who believe life starts a conception, but I disagree. It’s not murdering babies when it’s extremely early in the pregnancy because it’s not a “Baby” yet.
The reason I say I’m pro-choice is because I believe that there are certain circumstances where an abortion is warranted. I don’t like abortion, nor do I support it, but I can understand why in a dire case it might be needed. Otherwise, if you don’t want your baby, I’m pro-adoption.
If life started at conception, there should be laws against sexual intercourse for anything but procreation because you’re wasting a potential unborn life. If you masturbate you’re wasting millions of potential sperm…so why isn’t that reckless abandonment? The same with ovulation.
You Republicans claim you’re for small government, yet you insist on having the government control such things as abortion and gay marriage rights…as if either had any impact on you.
You won’t change my mind on it either.
Life starts at conception.
Please be careful on adding ideas for new laws as the libs in Washington might take your advice. They already support having the gov’t take teen age girls in for abortions without notifiying the parents, and not allowing an ultra-sound to be performed prior to the abortion out of fear that the mother would learn that she was being lied to by social services and the doctors. Next thing you know, they’ll implement socialist healthcare and will begin limiting the number of children a family can have. It’s possible. Obama has discussed his envy of the Commies in China and his disrespect for human life and how bad it is to be “punished with a baby…”
I don’t agree with anything you just said. However, it is possible to be punished with a baby. For instance, a 14 year old girl is raped and as a result gets pregnant. I’d call that a bad situation. Naturally I’d say carry the baby and put it up for adoption, but that can be extremely risky for such a young girl…not to mention a 9 month long reminder of an extreme act of brutality and abuse. For you to tell her that it’s murder for her to have an abortion is just asinine. Try to look at things from her point of view, but chances are you’ve got your head shoved so far up something of your own that it’s impossible to see anyone elses pov.
Whether the mother may like it or not, murder is murder. But, lets suppose that those that think there is a constitutional right to have an abortion are correct, research proves that it is a healthier situation if the mother gives birth. Teens that have abortions have higher risks of severe complications during and after aboritions, plus extensive long-term psychological issues including being more likely to abuse drugs and alcohol, inability to develop long-term relationships, and are 4 times more likely to commit suicide than adults that have abortions. Adults that have abortions are 6 time more likely to commit suicide than adults that do not.
I believe you that you don’t support abortion and you are being very genuine in that. But, you have to recognize that those in gov’t and the wacko women’s lib people that are refusing to give these women all of the facts and are forcing them or coercing them into having aboritions are doing great disservices to these women. These women are being lied to and their health is being thrown aside for political purposes. Young girls are not being provided the opportunity to receive council from their parents. Then these people are taking thoughful and educated people from the general public (like yourself) and are disguising this issue as a women’s right to choose instead of a gov’t making healthcare decisions for minors and not notifying parents. Those in gov’t that support abortion are selling disgusting lies about how abortions are all about bubble gum and lollipops.
Up to 83% of abortions are unwanted.
Most felt rushed and uncertain, yet 67% had no counseling before abortion.
79% not informed about available alternatives.
84% said they were not given enough information to make an informed choice.
Ok, I agree that no one should ever be coerced or misguided when making such an extreme/life altering decision. That isn’t right. I do believe that parents are notified in cases of minors… but I could be wrong. In any medical case I’ve ever seen, parents are notified for minors, the reason being that minors cannot sign consent for any procedure. Please provide some proof to back up your statement, and figures.
I’d like to see proof that there’s any correlation between abortion and the other things you’ve listed. I don’t buy it. Otherwise I don’t really argue with anything else you wrote. There should always be parental and medical counseltation. Just to throw out there, it bothers the crap out of me to hear of an abortion just because the pregnancy is unwanted. There’s millions of people who desperately want to have children and can’t. Give the baby to one of them.
Right now, 16 states have no notification laws regarding abortions. Here’s the link to a pro-abortion web site listing those states that do and do not have notification laws.
http://www.positive.org/Resources/consent.html
Social workers and guidance counselers take advantage of the court procedure to go around parent notification laws and abortion activists in gov’t do all they can to allow that to happen and use Hipaa laws for that, even though they weren’t written for those reasons.
The Elliot Institute reported the other percentage stats I cited.
http://theunchoice.com/pdf/FactSheets/PortraitsOfCoercion.pdf
http://www.theunchoice.com is the main site. The citations link is here:
http://theunchoice.com/PortraitsofCoercionCitations.htm
Go talk to the councilers at the centers that care for women after they’ve had abortions. (HINT: you won’t find them at planned parenthood), and they aren’t gov’t funded), but they’re out there. You might not change your mind, but at a minimum, you would demand that the U.S. gov’t require before tax dollars are spent on an abortion, these women are educated about all sides of the issue and given time to understand every option and scenario. If those that say they’re not pro-abortion, but believe in a women’s right to choose we’re also given the correct information about what is really going on, there would be a lot less abortions, and the public would know that the pro-choice movement in gov’t has nothing to do with choice.
Here’s another…I just picked this up from my FB account…
Planned Parenthood tells a 13 year old that was impregnated by a 31 year old how to get an abortion with out parental consent. What if this was your daughter or grand-daughter, or sister, or cousin?
I do fully believe that a woman should have a clear understanding of the risks and should be completely educated and counseled before making that decision. I do have a problem with that not getting done.
Most people that accept it as a “right to choose” feel the same way you do. That’s usually where their understanding of the practice ends. Unfortunately, the truth about the role these gov’t agencies are playing is rarely told, as well as the court cases that occur to prevent the women from being able to make a real choice based on facts.
To All My Democrat Friends:
Please accept with no obligation, implied or implicit, my best wishes for an environmentally conscious, socially responsible, low-stress, non-addictive, gender-neutral celebration of the winter solstice holiday, practiced within the most enjoyable traditions of the religious persuasion of your choice, or secular practices of your choice, with respect for the religious/secular persuasion and/or traditions of others, or their choice not to practice religious or secular traditions at all. I also wish you a fiscally successful, personally fulfilling and medically uncomplicated recognition of the onset of the generally accepted calendar year 2009, but not without due respect for the calendars of choice of other cultures whose contributions to society have helped make America great. Not to imply that America is necessarily greater than any other country nor the only America in the Western Hemisphere . Also, this wish is made without regard to the race, creed, color, age, physical ability, religious faith or sexual preference of the wishee.
To My Republican Friends:
MERRY CHRISTMAS AND HAPPY NEW YEAR
“To All My Democrat Friends:
Please accept with no obligation, implied or implicit, my best wishes for an environmentally conscious, socially responsible, low-stress, non-addictive, gender-neutral celebration of the winter solstice holiday, practiced within the most enjoyable traditions of the religious persuasion of your choice, or secular practices of your choice, with respect for the religious/secular persuasion and/or traditions of others, or their choice not to practice religious or secular traditions at all. I also wish you a fiscally successful, personally fulfilling and medically uncomplicated recognition of the onset of the generally accepted calendar year 2009, but not without due respect for the calendars of choice of other cultures whose contributions to society have helped make America great. Not to imply that America is necessarily greater than any other country nor the only America in the Western Hemisphere . Also, this wish is made without regard to the race, creed, color, age, physical ability, religious faith or sexual preference of the wishee.
To My Republican Friends:
MERRY CHRISTMAS AND HAPPY NEW YEAR”
Don, now that just made me laugh. Not all of us Dems are that PC. Merry Christmas and Happy New Year as well.
Don, I call you on all your statistics… Are you saying that women aren’t smart enough to realize that they have options? I would lable you a masogynist (sp)! You can support whatever the hell you want and don’t. One can find stats to support any opinion they have. I think your sources were biased…and they undertook the research to support their own preconceived notion of the ills of abortion.
Mike, don’t be such a puss. Tell NCD your opion and stand by it! Look at the sources he sites!
Zig,
The majority of the women and girls that have abortions at planned parenthood are lied to about their options, or are told what their only “choice” is. Those that actually have physicians are given more information. Few are given all of the information to make an informed choice.
Zig,
How can I argue the fact that I believe women should have counseling and medical risk knowledge before deciding to have an abortion, especially young women? Seems pretty logical to me and even I can’t argue it. I’m not going to argue whether or not they’re getting that counseling because I’m too darn lazy to find any links…and to be perfectly honest the three of us have no idea what counseling they get. We’re not women and we’ve never went to get an abortion.
Don, just because you can find a link to something on the internet doesn’t make it real. I can point you to a site that says Kellen Winslow Jr. had swollen testicles…but it was never proven.
Mike,
I pointed you to a website that listed a book by a doctor that determined those statistics. Nearly identical stats are everywhere in this world wide debate. Unfortunatley, you need to look for them because the feminists are not discussing them and the pro-life organizations are being run with donor dollars as opposed to an unending stream of taxpayer dollars.
I have to call you on Winslow’s swollen testicles…I’m not certain he ever had testicles to begin with…
I’m not sure where this took place,but it is disturbing. If my child performed a “Winter Play” like this, I’d sue the school district for indoctrination. The commies are in full swing and it’s called the “global warming movement.” Jesus is taboo, but lying about warming and oceans rising is okay…
http://planetgore.nationalreview.com/post/?q=MWE2MDUxM2IyMWJmNTcyMDllNWU5ZDEyYmRmZGFlZTI=
I’m not sure I want to get into this, but what could possibly make you believe that scientists are lying about global warming?
Funding…
The small list of scientific global warming believers is dwindling daily as logic has taken hold and absolutely no proof of warming, or catastrophic effects, or human influence exists. Those that still believe are competing for research dollars that keeps food on their table and allows them to keep their jobs at universities and gov’t agencies.
If you don’t see the global warming debate as a political debate in the States, and an attempt to destroy the U.S. economy from a U.N. and world wide standpoint, you are missing the real truth about the entire debate.
Find a non-communist, non-socialist, non-united nations, and privately funded legitimate climatologist that doesn’t own a carbon credit company that concurs with the IPCC reports, and the debate could be a truthful one. Otherwise, you’re looking at made up data that the “scientists” refuse to discuss or debate in a public forum.
The following was written by Ben Stein and recited by him on CBS Sunday Morning Commentary
My confession:
I am a Jew, and every single one of my ancestors was Jewish. And it does not bother me even a little bit when
people call those beautiful lit up, bejeweled trees, Christmas trees..
I don’t feel threatened. I don’t feel discriminated against. That’s what
they are: Christmas trees.
It doesn’t bother me a bit when people say, ‘Merry Christmas’ to me.
I don’t think they are slighting me or getting
ready to put me in a ghetto. In fact, I kind of like it It shows that we
are all brothers and sisters celebrating this happy time of year.
It doesn’t bother me at all that there is a manger scene on display at a key
intersection near my beach house in Malibu .
If people want a crèche, it’s just as fine with me as is the Menorah a few hundred yards away.
I don’t like getting pushed around for being a Jew, and I don’t think Christians like getting pushed around for being Christians.
I think people who believe in God are sick and tired of
getting pushed around, period. I have no idea where the concept came from that America is an explicitly atheist country.
I can’t find it in the Constitution and I don’t like it being shoved down my throat.
Or maybe I can put it another way: where did the idea come from that we should worship celebrities and we aren’t
allowed to worship God as we understand Him? I guess that’s a sign that I’m getting old, too.
But there are a lot of us who are wondering where these celebrities came from and where the America we knew went to.
In light of the many jokes we send to one another for a laugh, this is a little different: This is not intended
to be a joke; it’s not funny, it’s intended to get you thinking.
Billy Graham’s daughter was interviewed on the Early Show and Jane Clayson asked her
‘How could God let something like this happen?’ (regarding Katrina) Anne Graham gave an extremely profound
and insightful response. She said, ‘I believe God is deeply saddened by this , just as we are, but for years we’ve been telling God to get out of our
schools, to get out of our government and to get out of our lives. And
being the gentleman He is, I believe He has calmly backed out.
How can we expect God to give us His blessing and His protection if we demand He leave us alone?’
In light of recent events… terrorists attack, school shootings, etc. I think it started when Madeleine Murray
O’Hare ( she was murdered, her body found a few years ago) complained she didn’t want prayer in our schools, and we said OK. Then someone said you
better not read the Bible in school. The Bible says thou shall not kill, thou shall not steal, and love your neighbor as yourself. And we said OK.
Now we’re asking ourselves why our children have no conscience, why they don’t know right from wrong, and why it doesn’t
bother them to kill strangers, their classmates, and themselves.
Probably, if we think about it long and hard enough, we can figure it out. I think it has a great deal to do with ‘WE REAP WHAT WE SOW’.
Funny how simple it is for people to trash God and then wonder why the world’s going to hell, Funny how we believe what the newspapers say, but question what the Bible says.
Funny how you can send ‘jokes’ through e-mail and they spread like wildfire but when you start sending messages regarding the Lord, people think twice about sharing.
Funny how lewd, crude, vulgar and obscene articles pass freely through
cyberspace, but public discussion of God is suppressed in the school and workplace.
Are you laughing yet?
Funny how when you forward this message, you will not send it to many on your address list because you’re not sure
what they believe, or what they will think of you for sending it.
Funny how we can be more worried about what other people think of us than what God thinks of us.
Pass it on if you think it has merit. If not then just discard it… no one will know you did. But, if you discard this thought process, don’t sit back and complain about what bad shape
the world is in.
My Best Regards, Honestly and respectfully,
Ben Stein
I like Ben Stein, but what he said bothers me. I hate when people think that children have no conscience because they have no religion in schools. Religion didn’t teach me right from wrong…I LEARNED THAT FROM MY PARENTS AND TEACHERS! I had absolutely no religion in schools, and that’s how I like it. If you want religion in your school, go to a private religious school. Does religion teach morals? Sure it does. But the lack of religion does not lead to lack of morals, it just needs to be learned somewhere else…like at home. You need no more proof than to look up the Hammurabi Code. That wasn’t religious at all and…dear God…it was a moral and legal standard…
Those that believe we can’t be a moral society without religion, just prove the fact that religion was created to control the mass population. Historical fact! And no, that has nothing to do with whether or not I believe in God. I do, but the religions to worship God are made up.
Merry Christmas and Happy New Year everyone.
Those are very excellent points and observations Mike. I hope you had a great Christmas and have a very safe and happy 2009.
[…] with answers directly from the communist play book. Several exchanges occurred in my column, The War on Christmas. In Mikes comment posted Dec. 9th at 10:27am, he describes his love for European history because […]